Should I get an Elma ultrasonic cleaner or something cheaper?

[VWatchie]

I am considering buying this ultrasonic cleaner named Elma "Easy" Line E10H. It is quite an investment, but I hope to get a high-quality ultrasonic cleaner that not only does its expected job but also lasts for many years. That said, as an enthusiast, I will be running it quite infrequently.

Looking at YouTube videos, all "watch parts cleaning experts" seem to agree that the frequency when cleaning watch parts should be at least 40 KHz, but this machine is at 37 KHz. This makes me wonder because it is marketed for cleaning movement parts (among other things). I wonder who is right and who is wrong.

The question is whether I would look for another ultrasonic cleaner as there are much cheaper alternatives. The question is whether the more affordable options do as good (or better?) a job and whether I can expect them not to break down or lose effectiveness over time.

I am very interested to hear about your experiences and views!

[Neverenoughwatches]

22 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

I am considering buying this ultrasonic cleaner named Elma "Easy" Line E10H. It is quite an investment, but I hope to get a high-quality ultrasonic cleaner that not only does its expected job but also lasts for many years. That said, as an enthusiast, I will be running it quite infrequently.

Looking at YouTube videos, all "watch parts cleaning experts" seem to agree that the frequency when cleaning watch parts should be at least 40 KHz, but this machine is at 37 KHz. This makes me wonder because it is marketed for cleaning movement parts (among other things). I wonder who is right and who is wrong.

The question is whether I would look for another ultrasonic cleaner as there are much cheaper alternatives. The question is whether the more affordable options do as good (or better?) a job and whether I can expect them not to break down or lose effectiveness over time.

I am very interested to hear about your experiences and views!

Is this your first USCM.. H ?

I wouldn't expect the cleaning difference between 37khz and 40ish khs to be that great. High 40s maybe, Elma will know why they chose 37khs... optimum cleaning without damage probably .

My experience of cheap usm is...I bought a medium sized one, that would be about 2 litres of water, for around 50 quid 3 years ago. It has a heating function and two khz levels of sonic cleaning. This served me very well, but i wanted something smaller, more portable to sit a bit closer to my bench. So I bought an 800 ml option for about the same price but without the two extra functions. It lasted about ten watch cleans then the transducer fell off the tank, I sent it back to Amazon for a refund. I'm now back to using my first one after making a modification to it, its now perfect for what I want and cleans, as far as i can tell, very well.

[VWatchie]

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Edited December 13, 2024 by VWatchie

[AndyGSi]

Got one of these about 18 months ago which is 40kHz and heated.

Although i haven't cleaned many watches since I've had it, I've never had any problems.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B098PDM4RV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

To add that it's been used quite a few time on constant heating for days to dissolve stems and still runs fine.

[RichardHarris123]

Read this

I can't copy the link for some reason

 

 

Edited December 13, 2024 by RichardHarris123

[HectorLooi]

I used a cheap China made ultrasonic cleaner in my clinic for many years and it worked perfectly.

When it comes to ultrasonic cleaners, do not get those fancy touch screens, membrane switch, digital display types. Get one with a manual timer, like a toaster oven.

Ultrasonic cleaning solutions are rather strange. It is designed to creep along surfaces and into small cracks and loosen dirt. Any solution that drips down the sides of your machine will creep under the machine, into chassis screw holes, under front panel stickers, into holes for the LEDs, etc. The solution destroys circuit boards. The solution will creep into the manual timer and destroy them too, but manual timers are cheap, circuit boards are not.

I used to help a friend who has a dental supply company. And I used to repair a lot of ultrasonic cleaners for him, including Elma. Most of them were damaged by ultrasonic solution getting into places where it isn't supposed to go.

Elmas are generally ok. They don't seem to survive solution damage any better than cheaper units. But when they spoil, the repair charges are eye-watering. 

Elma also doesn't give their distributors very much support like in the areas of technical training.

I would advise you to get a cheap China unit. For the price of an Elma, you could buy 5 China units.

[VWatchie]

No, it's not my first. The one (and only) I had (Chinese) worked well for about five watch cleans (like yours). After that, the transducer hardly stirred the water in the tank. It was total junk and the reason I'm hoping an Elma would be worth it.

Also, with the Elma, you can get a lid in which you place beakers which would make the processes a lot less messy. The idea is to place the parts in my rotating Elma cleaning machine basket, do the cleaning in the US, then transfer the basket to my cleaning machine, spin off, and rinse (rotating) in distilled water and IPA.

[HectorLooi]

Most transducers are bonded on with epoxy. And epoxy's biggest enemy is heat. I don't recommend using the ultrasonic cleaner with heaters turned on because it will weaken the epoxy and result in debonding.

Never put objects directly on the bottom of the tank. This will cause heat buildup because there is insufficient circulation of fluid to carry the heat away. This is also why I don't like the beaker holders that come with the units. With the ultrasonic turned on, the vibrations can cause the beaker to slip down and touch the bottom. I prefer to use smaller beakers and put them in the basket.

There are some ultrasonic transducers that are bonded and screwed down to a metal stud welded to the bottom of the tank. These are, in my opinion, the most secure way of attaching a transducer to the tank. But you can never tell the construction method just by looking at it.

[Malocchio]

What about cleaner fluids, do they make a difference? I've been using Oregon brand fluid and sometimes just a dish washing fluid (Fairy etc) for case parts. The US fluid makes parts perhaps a bit shinier but other than that is there a big difference in cleaning power? 

[Neverenoughwatches]

14 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Got one of these about 18 months ago which is 40kHz and heated.

Although i haven't cleaned many watches since I've had it, I've never had any problems.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B098PDM4RV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

To add that it's been used quite a few time on constant heating for days to dissolve stems and still runs fine.

I have the two litre version of that exact one,.they've gone up in price but still cheap.

14 hours ago, VWatchie said:

No, it's not my first. The one (and only) I had (Chinese) worked well for about five watch cleans (like yours). After that, the transducer hardly stirred the water in the tank. It was total junk and the reason I'm hoping an Elma would be worth it.

Also, with the Elma, you can get a lid in which you place beakers which would make the processes a lot less messy. The idea is to place the parts in my rotating Elma cleaning machine basket, do the cleaning in the US, then transfer the basket to my cleaning machine, spin off, and rinse (rotating) in distilled water and IPA.

Sounds like the same problem that my second one had. I assumed the transducer had become detached from the tank, as I could still hear it buzzing, but it was not acting on the tank water. I made a lid for my first one with holes in it, and sat three stainless steel cups in them. Works great now.

[HectorLooi]

1 hour ago, Malocchio said:

What about cleaner fluids, do they make a difference? I've been using Oregon brand fluid and sometimes just a dish washing fluid (Fairy etc) for case parts. The US fluid makes parts perhaps a bit shinier but other than that is there a big difference in cleaning power? 

Most definitely. 

If I wanted to brighten as well as clean brass parts, I'd use an ammoniated cleaner like L&R #111 or Elma Red. For removing organic matter from watch cas4s and bracelets, I'd use a dental or surgical instrument cleaner.

 

[JohnR725]

10 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Most transducers are bonded on with epoxy. And epoxy's biggest enemy is heat. I don't recommend using the ultrasonic cleaner with heaters turned on because it will weaken the epoxy and result in debonding.

Yes epoxy and heat is rather interesting. Sometimes what I machining parts I will epoxy because it has really nice holding power and then I will put the thing in a pot of boiling water wagon just tap off the object nice and clean. Also if you want to take out watch crystals and up epoxy Danube oil level in water and I'll just pop out. But it does seem odd that manufacturers would use Epoque see and have a heating system so they may be using a higher temperature E epoxy or something else

10 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Never put objects directly on the bottom of the tank. This will cause heat buildup because there is insufficient circulation of fluid to carry the heat away. This is also why I don't like the beaker holders that come with the units. With the ultrasonic turned on, the vibrations can cause the beaker to slip down and touch the bottom. I prefer to use smaller beakers and put them in the basket.

I had a small ultrasonic machine that I used for cleaning watch parts that actually came with a glass beaker and recommended putting it in the tank With water between the tank in the beaker. This would of course cause in discussion groups of people telling me how stupid I am because you must never do this even though it's the way it came. Then the cheap little ultrasonic ran about 20 years of occasionally cleaning watches and worked perfect until it finally died.

But I've also seen larger ultrasonic machines were people put metal clock plates or other large metal objects and shattered their transducers. So yes it usually is recommended not to have things directly on top of the transducer. One theory I heard was if it's solid enough feel reflect back into the transducer which really bad I do not know if that's true or not I do know they look really bad when the shattered.

I was trying to find another picture of the bigger machine that I was using when the little one disintegrated. But I did find a picture the little one purchased from the drugstore when they're on sale or there were just really cheap. In other words newfangled ultrasonic cleaning machine with beaker worked really well. Even if I did get schooled in the discussion groups

 

Okay that your machine somebody didn't want it and gave it to me. So it to prevent the beaker from sitting on the very bottom not that it hurt the little machine as far as I get tell I have a piece of plastic with square holes in it and it fits in the tank units up about hard to tell the picture but at least half an inch maybe an inch than the beaker can sit on that and not be on top of the transducer.

 

 

[mikepilk]

My cheap Chinese 1.3L ultrasonic is similar to the one in @AndyGSi's pic, but with knobs in place of touch buttons. After looking at the specs of the ultrasonics in pro cleaning machines, I decided on 40kHz and 60W power.

I think people who complain of stripping shellac from pallet jewels etc may be using machines with more than 60W.

Using Elma fluids, 4 mins clean, 2x 2 mins rinse gets the parts clean for me.

[Neverenoughwatches]

20 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Also, with the Elma, you can get a lid in which you place beakers which would make the processes a lot less messy. The idea is to place the parts in my rotating Elma cleaning machine basket, do the cleaning in the US, then transfer the basket to my cleaning machine, spin off, and rinse (rotating) in distilled water and IPA.

I think this is a great idea H , and some thing that I now do. Loosen up all the gunk in the USM, then apply a 3 minute rotary clean to the basket to wash the loosened crud away, spin off the excess cleaner and then a couple of rinse cycles as normal.

13 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Never put objects directly on the bottom of the tank. This will cause heat buildup because there is insufficient circulation of fluid to carry the heat away. This is also why I don't like the beaker holders that come with the units. With the ultrasonic turned on, the vibrations can cause the beaker to slip down and touch the bottom. I prefer to use smaller beakers and put them in the basket.

I considered the wire basket that goes with the tank a barrier, so i did away with for part cleaning. Made a lid with three holes and use tapered stainless steel cups initially so that can't slip down. Add a collar to whatever beakers you are using so they can't move downwards. 

[rehajm]

7 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I have the two litre version of that exact one,.they've gone up in price but still cheap

Same. The LED indicators are failing but otherwise gets the job done…