My future projects - when I'm good enough

[ChrisInOz]

I'm just starting out with learning to service and repair watches,  but I have acquired a number of watches and movements to practice on.

Some things that have ended up in my collection I am setting aside at first,  until I have developed some skill,  and have become somewhat less clumsy and ignorant.  Mainly they are things that look like more of a challenge,  or that I think are a bit special and therefore I don't want to risk damaging them.

So here is the first one - it was in a group of about six pocket watch movements that I bought on EBay about fifteen years ago. It's an English key-wind fusee movement that I think is from some time around 1850.  Transaction details are lost in time,  but I think I paid about $50 for the six movements.

  

It is signed by Savory and Sons of London.  According to Loomes,  they were active from 1839 to 1863.

The balance staff appears to be broken, but the fusee chain is intact and in place.

 

The dial looks OK,  but there are no hands,  and the sub seconds arbor looks bent.   Of course,  there is no case. 

Question:  Would that square on the arbor be for setting the hands?

 

 

[AndyGSi]

Strange how the movement is marked Coinhill but everywhere I look for Savory & Sons it's listed as Cornhill?

[RichardHarris123]

Yes, the square is for setting the hands. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, AndyGSi said:

Strange how the movement is marked Coinhill but everywhere I look for Savory & Sons it's listed as Cornhill?

Spelling lost in translation...English engaving to English text lol. I think the engraver actually messed up and then tried to rectify it with a half attempted r. Notice the apostrophe over the r and the enlarged over the i dot with half the r.....and then he thought "oh fuk it "

Thats a big piece to mess-up and have to remake , one of the lads may have done it and then probably got a good hiding when the old man saw it.

Edited December 6, 2024 by Neverenoughwatches

[ChrisInOz]

8 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Strange how the movement is marked Coinhill but everywhere I look for Savory & Sons it's listed as Cornhill?

Wow!  I had been reading that as "Cornhill",  but when I compare it with the second "i",  I can see what you mean.   Now you've pointed it out,  it is impossible to unsee.

 

6 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I think the engraver actually messed up and then tried to rectify it with a half attempted r. Notice the apostrophe over the r and the enlarged over the i dot with half the r.....and then he thought "oh fuk it "

Probably ruined his whole day,  or worse.   I wonder if it was an apprentice,  and if he tried to cover up his own mistake,  or perhaps someone helped him.

6 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thats a big piece to mess-up and have to remake , one of the lads may have done it and then probably got a good hiding when the old man saw it.

I do wonder what life would have been like in that workshop,  40 years or so before my grandfather was born.  Like something from a Charles Dickens novel perhaps.   I don't suppose they would have imagined that 170 years later, their watch would end up in Australia,  with an amateur wondering about how to repair it.

[ChrisInOz]

OK, here's my next one.

Sometime around 2007,  I had the opportunity to buy some things from a clock and watch hobbyist who was moving to aged care.   Basically there were two cartons of stuff,  and he was asking for $100,  "take it or leave it."   One of the cartons had a number of chiming clock movements and chime blocks with their rods,  and these were what interested me at that time,  so I handed over the hundred and took the boxes home.

On arrival,  I unpacked the cartons,  and discovered I had also bought a couple of shoe boxes of watch parts,  including many crystals,  some balances and other things,  and a few wristwatches.

I put the watch items away in a cabinet,  and didn't look at them again until recently.  Some of the watches look interesting,  including a very lovely Bulova,  that seems to have nothing wrong with it except a broken crystal.

Another one,  a Seiko,  looked to be a real basket case.  It seems to have spent a number of years in "wristwatch hell." I can't imagine what happened to it to leave it in this condition:

Yes,  it's a 6139-6001.  Not quite a Pogue,  since I think this is an earlier model than the watch that the Colonel took to Skylab,  but still very interesting.

The dial looks corroded,  there are no hands,  the stem is broken,  the bezel ring looks really beat up, and the crystal is badly scuffed.

And it gets worse!

There is rust.  The case ring seems to be wrongly fitted so that it jams the winding weight and also prevents the case back from being screwed on.

At least I still have the case back.  A 1971 model by the look of it.

The watch appears to have been stored in  an open box in a garden shed for a number of years before I got it.  I now have it stored in a dust proof plastic box,  but when I took it out and put it on the mat to take these pictures,  I'm fairly sure some body parts of a long-dead cockroach fell out of it. 

(Sorry,  I didn't think to take a picture of those,  but I am confident that they were not anything made by Seiko.)

Oh yes,  one of the pushers is also missing,  and the other one is jammed.  I have bought a replacement stem,  but just the basic one,  not the one with the small wheel that operates the inner ring.

I know that parts for these are very expensive,  and original dials impossible,  so what do you think guys?

Would you say that this one is too far gone to be worth restoring,  or should I give it a try when I have enough experience to work on a chronograph movement?

 

 

 

 

[AndyGSi]

Be interesting to see the dial once the crystal has been removed.

I've seen worse bezels on watches being sold and the movement doesn't look
in too bad a state and NOS parts are still available if not a donor movement.

Edit

Just realised that looks like the wrong crown.

Edited December 10, 2024 by AndyGSi

[mbwatch]

2 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Be interesting to see the dial once the crystal has been removed.

If the dial is as bad as it looks under that crystal, I would proudly wear this thing.

[AndyGSi]

1 minute ago, mbwatch said:

If the dial is as bad as it looks under that crystal, I would proudly wear this thing.

I don't think it will look that bad once the crystal has been swapped but I'd also wear it in whatever condition

[Razz]

5 hours ago, ChrisInOz said:

OK, here's my next one.

Sometime around 2007,  I had the opportunity to buy some things from a clock and watch hobbyist who was moving to aged care.   Basically there were two cartons of stuff,  and he was asking for $100,  "take it or leave it."   One of the cartons had a number of chiming clock movements and chime blocks with their rods,  and these were what interested me at that time,  so I handed over the hundred and took the boxes home.

On arrival,  I unpacked the cartons,  and discovered I had also bought a couple of shoe boxes of watch parts,  including many crystals,  some balances and other things,  and a few wristwatches.

I put the watch items away in a cabinet,  and didn't look at them again until recently.  Some of the watches look interesting,  including a very lovely Bulova,  that seems to have nothing wrong with it except a broken crystal.

Another one,  a Seiko,  looked to be a real basket case.  It seems to have spent a number of years in "wristwatch hell." I can't imagine what happened to it to leave it in this condition:

Yes,  it's a 6139-6001.  Not quite a Pogue,  since I think this is an earlier model than the watch that the Colonel took to Skylab,  but still very interesting.

The dial looks corroded,  there are no hands,  the stem is broken,  the bezel ring looks really beat up, and the crystal is badly scuffed.

And it gets worse!

There is rust.  The case ring seems to be wrongly fitted so that it jams the winding weight and also prevents the case back from being screwed on.

At least I still have the case back.  A 1971 model by the look of it.

The watch appears to have been stored in  an open box in a garden shed for a number of years before I got it.  I now have it stored in a dust proof plastic box,  but when I took it out and put it on the mat to take these pictures,  I'm fairly sure some body parts of a long-dead cockroach fell out of it. 

(Sorry,  I didn't think to take a picture of those,  but I am confident that they were not anything made by Seiko.)

Oh yes,  one of the pushers is also missing,  and the other one is jammed.  I have bought a replacement stem,  but just the basic one,  not the one with the small wheel that operates the inner ring.

I know that parts for these are very expensive,  and original dials impossible,  so what do you think guys?

Would you say that this one is too far gone to be worth restoring,  or should I give it a try when I have enough experience to work on a chronograph movement?

 

 

 

 

Look up Seiko Pogue. Right time frame, if dial is original with water resist 70m to the right of 9, could have some value.

[AndyGSi]

1 hour ago, Razz said:

Look up Seiko Pogue. Right time frame, if dial is original with water resist 70m to the right of 9, could have some value.

Being 1971 and a 6001 a lot of people call this a pre pogue but would still have some value if working even in half decent condition.

[Razz]

1 hour ago, AndyGSi said:

Being 1971 and a 6001 a lot of people call this a pre pogue but would still have some value if working even in half decent condition.

I was thinking Capn Pogue's was a September '71 anything from Feb 1971 to April 1972 with sieko automatic, water resist 70m and the Suwa on the dial should be a true pogue. But the caseback 6001 is wrong and needs to be 6005...

[ChrisInOz]

9 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Just realised that looks like the wrong crown.

Thanks.   That broken stem, with crown attached,  was (loosely)  in the watch when I received it,  so perhaps it was part of a repair attempt by the previous owner.

[Malocchio]

I serviced one similarly rust damaged "blue Pogue" a while ago. Fortunately the critical parts were in good condition and the chrono wheel was good. It made a good beater. Even though there's heavy rust the wheels don't often get corroded at all. I say you service the movement, relume the dial and get the missing parts. The stem with the wheel is hard to find but I think aftermarket alternatives do exist. I even made a video of mine, of course it's narrated in Finnish so it's no use to anyone. It's got almost whopping 300 views!

 

[AndyGSi]

1 hour ago, Razz said:

I was thinking Capn Pogue's was a September '71 anything from Feb 1971 to April 1972 with sieko automatic, water resist 70m and the Suwa on the dial should be a true pogue. But the caseback 6001 is wrong and needs to be 6005...

The 6005 is the only true Pogue in mine and a lot of other peoples opinion as being the US variant.

[tomh207]

I don’t know if you know, Vintage Time Australia are in Adelaide and specialise in Seiko. They sell parts they have/have had manufactured such as 6309 barrel arbor jewels. They may come in handy for bits here.

https://vintagetimeaustralia.com

i believe they sell on eBay.

 

@ChrisInOz

 

Tom

 

[ChrisInOz]

I tried to get some better pictures of the dial a couple of days ago.  Haven't been able to free it from the case though,  it appears to be stuck in place by dirt and corrosion.

The movement doesn't look too bad

but somebody has been very cruel to the case ring.