Unusual and tiny escape wheel shock on Raketa 2609.N

[mbwatch]

Hey friends -

I have a couple of Raketas in my bench with the 2609.N movement. They have a cap jewel on the escape wheel pivots with a retainer or spring I haven't seen before. It's not listed as far as I can tell on the big shock spring thread.

Does anyone know which direction this comes out or its name? It looks so small and delicate, I hesitate to touch it but I know I have to clean under there. I am guessing the two arms facing up can be released. But what is on the round end beyond the little tab?

[Michael1962]

I would suggest a fine pair of tweezers. Put the points of the tweezers in the two angles on the shock spring and squeeze to get the spring to come away from the gap it is sitting in. I suggest the tab is to assist when putting the spring back in.

Again, squeeze the two angles toward each other and with a second set, push the tab into the gap in the movement and then work the rest of the spring in.

What size are we looking at? Diameter? I would expect it to be potentially quite fragile as well.

I'd be trying to remove it inside a bag. The potential for this to go flying off into the wild blue yonder would be very high.

[JohnL]

They are a pain. I used the chisel end of peg wood to stop them flying and a cheap oiler to get under the spring end. Using a tweezers on both ends at the same time to compress can apparently break them. They have a tendency to be old, so are prone to breaking anyway. I bought a small number of Raketa watches for parts after breaking a couple. 

I believe I saw a suggestion as well of leaving them in place, cleaning the movement as normal, then oiling with an automatic oiler or oil the chaton with a standard oiler and push the oil through with a hair from the back of your hand, or a special tool for the job.

Good luck

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, mbwatch said:

Hey friends -

I have a couple of Raketas in my bench with the 2609.N movement. They have a cap jewel on the escape wheel pivots with a retainer or spring I haven't seen before. It's not listed as far as I can tell on the big shock spring thread.

Does anyone know which direction this comes out or its name? It looks so small and delicate, I hesitate to touch it but I know I have to clean under there. I am guessing the two arms facing up can be released. But what is on the round end beyond the little tab?

Correct It is just a cap jewel retainer not a shock spring. I release just one arm then the other and gently lift them out. But yes they are fragile, so ive seen lots of them broke in half. You might want to use a blob of rodico on a stick to lift them out.

Dont try squeezing both arms arms at once, this is how ive seen many broken ones.

I was remembering why they are  frigile so i pulled out a big bunch of Soviet plates and  bridges i have, they're really prone to rust.

The rusty one took free flight, i had to give it some extra help to come out as it was part rusted in and the rodico stick had been neglected .  So here's another more friendly one that has come away by releasing just one arm and the rod stick lifted it away nicely

So as you can see they are plated steel, try a little light magnetism instead of the rodico you might prefer that invisible sticky steel substance, just a light brush over some carbon tweezers or a probe with a small magnet.

Slow predictable move see it back home safe.

1 hour ago, JohnL said:

believe I saw a suggestion as well of leaving them in place, cleaning the movement as normal, then oiling with an automatic oiler or oil the chaton with a standard oiler and push the oil through with a hair from the

Problem with this is.....the cap doesn't get a good clean, and after going through a wash might be in a worse condition with residue staining than before washing. Thing is you have no idea of how clean the cap really is unless you take it out and buff it up. 

[Michael1962]

Well I was close, but take the advice from the people that have done the job before and forget what I said.

I shall now go and sit in the corner.  

Ooo. Spiders. This is nice.

Edited November 28, 2024 by Michael1962

[JohnL]

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Problem with this is.....the cap doesn't get a good clean, and after going through a wash might be in a worse condition with residue staining than before washing. Thing is you have no idea of how clean the cap really is unless you take it out and buff it up. 

Completely agree, it's why I persevered with removing the pesky little blighters. I have seen it suggested so I thought I'd mention it. I found putting them back in even more awkward than taking them out. They have a tendency to just be pushed around in a circle in the recess for them without the spring going back in. To the OP: One end of them is slightly different than the other. That's the end you want to play with. Good luck.

Edited November 28, 2024 by JohnL
typo

[mbwatch]

6 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

What size are we looking at? Diameter? I would expect it to be potentially quite fragile as well.

I'd be trying to remove it inside a bag.

Its diameter is close to my 1.2mm screwdriver blade. I will remove it in a bag - haven't had to do that in a long time.

 

6 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

So as you can see they are plated steel, try a little light magnetism instead of the rodico you might prefer that invisible sticky steel substance, just a light brush over some carbon tweezers or a probe with a small magnet.

Good to know. For a long time I had assumed most shock and retainer springs were brass, until some presumed lost in the carpet turned up weeks later during a magnet sweep. 

So it looks like there is a fine groove milled all the way around in there to accept the clip, and its radial direction probably does not matter (though I expect it has a top and bottom side preference)

3 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

I shall now go and sit in the corner.  

Ooo. Spiders. This is nice.

I hear you have some particularly bad ones in Australia 

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, JohnL said:

To the OP: One end of them is slightly different than the other. That's the end you want to play with. Good luck.

One arm is a tad shorter, that's the one that should come out first and go in last. 

[mbwatch]

Job done. It is difficult to tell which is the shorter arm. And I think these were more difficult to remove than install. My lower one came out and went back in easily but I broke the upper and had to take one off the next movement in line for service. I'll order a batch of spares today.

I expected the clip to fly right out once one arm was pulled free (like an inca spring or like the other Soviet shock spring) but it really wants to hold its circular shape in the groove. It takes some pulling to get it free and that's how I broke one.

Reinstalling, as long as they are laid in position just a light pull against one arm and the whole thing jumps right into place.

[nevenbekriev]

Well, these are product of bad design. Good sharp needle is needed to lift from one side, while the other is held with wooden stick in place. When the first side has popped enough to insert sharp tweezers tip under it, grasp it with tweezers and take the thing out. One of the legs is shorter and may be it is to be taken out first, but no one knows which is the short leg  when the thing is in place. May be there is rule which way to insert it as to know which is the short leg, but once the movement has been disassembled, it can  be put both ways.

[mbwatch]

1 hour ago, nevenbekriev said:

ood sharp needle is needed to lift from one side,

I used an oiler but I think it was not rigid enough. But was surprised that the arm would move back into the groove if I let go, instead of the clip popping out. I broke one while grasping with tweezers. My finest tip #5 was still too large.

[spectre6000]

On 11/27/2024 at 11:55 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Got enough watches there?  A bucket of dead Ruskies like that requires an explanation.

On 11/28/2024 at 2:52 AM, Michael1962 said:

Ooo. Spiders. This is nice.

Be careful! Those are Australian spiders! The internet says they can fly, and kill you with a glance!

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, spectre6000 said:

Got enough watches there?  A bucket of dead Ruskies like that requires an explanation.

well usually i would come up with some ridiculous story about collecting war trophies....lets not......nearly as crazy I bought 10kg of random watch parts a couple of years ago. Mostly Soviet and Jap pieces, still only a third of my way through them...so quite ordinarily boring really

[mbwatch]

21 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

10kg of random watch parts

... is a LOT of parts.