Nestromo compact watch cleaning machine

[Knebo]

Hi all,

I've been looking for a watch cleaning machine for a while. At the moment, I'm using a three-jar setup in a cheap ultrasonic cleaner. It works well, but I have a lot of cross-contamination between the jars because I can't properly spin of excess liquid after each stage. In my quest to find a machine, I've basically wanted to buy a Elma Super Elite, but despite looking for months, I've not found one below 750 EUR. Last night, one was sold in an eBay auction (!) for 1000 (incl shipping within Europe). And I got scammed and lost 500 EUR when trying to buy one that seemed a good deal.... very painful. I've also looked a various other machines, such as the Indian Pearl machines, Glashütte machines, and "Vibrasonic" models. Long story short: I've not yet found my luck.

NOW: there's a new super-compact machine on the market. Basically a guy in Germany that created his own DIY machine and is now selling it. Compared to all the DIY machines that we've discussed on the forum, this one is very compact and without a big stand. It sits directly on the jar.

Well, just have a look yourselves: https://nestromo.com/products/compact-watch-cleaning-machine
Make sure to scroll down to see the video (it's a bit hidden among the pictures).

My idea of using it is the following:

get the machine with 5 jars (the jars are cheap and generic). 
- 1 glass for washing + 1 for spinning washing fluid
- 2 glasses for rinsing + 1 for spinning rinsing fluid
= total of 5 jars. 

Thoughts:

pros: 
+ savings of a few hundred compared to Elma Super Elite on the current market
+ bidirectional spinning!!
+ small size 

cons:
- seems very expensive for what it is (but the engineer insists that most parts are Made in Germany and that about 10h of handwork goes into finishing the product). But well, still much cheaper than the Elma.
- biggest con is the absence of a heater for drying! but that's where a DIY solution could be figure out (silicone heating pads with adjustable temperature can be bought on AliX for 20 EUR. Add a tube of some sort and let the machine rest on it.
- spinning off liquid isn't as "elegant" as on the Elma (instead of a "plunger" within the same jar, one has to move to a dedicated spinning jar).

 

What are your thoughts!!??

 

Edited November 11 by Knebo

[caseback]

There is an Elma with extra's for sale in the Netherlands..

Elma reinigingsmachine  van 1952
Bieden
https://link.marktplaats.nl/m2175247189?utm_source=android_social&utm_content=vip&utm_medium=android_social&utm_campaign=socialbuttons

[Knebo]

 

43 minutes ago, caseback said:

There is an Elma with extra's for sale in the Netherlands..

Elma reinigingsmachine  van 1952
Bieden
https://link.marktplaats.nl/m2175247189?utm_source=android_social&utm_content=vip&utm_medium=android_social&utm_campaign=socialbuttons

oh wow, be REALLY careful with that ad!!! The EXACT same machine is also on the German "kleinanzeigen.de" site where I got scammed! And the address/Zip code is NOT close to the Netherlands. 

Gerade bei #Kleinanzeigen gefunden. Wie findest du das?

https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/elma-uhrmacher-reinigungmaschine-ultraschall-bad-ultraschallgena/2814581879-157-19199

 

[caseback]

That is very odd. The Dutch seller has been active for 12 years and has sufficient (and recent) positive feedback registered. Marktplaats is an ebay company and so is Kleinanzeigen (I believe Kleinanzeigen is owned by Marktplaats and they are owned by ebay..) and Marktplaats indicates they have verified the sellers identity and bank account number. On the other hand, the German seller has been active since 2021 and also has received positive feedback. Neither of the sellers would have risen a red flag.. I have asked the Dutch seller why his photo's also show up in a German site. It could well be he is both Dutch and German based. He wouldn't be the only one. I'll let you know what his/her response is.

 

I contacted the Dutch seller and he confirmed it is indeed the same/his machine. I advised him to mention that in both Marktplaats and Kleinanzeigen to avoid raising unneccessary suspicions

Edited November 11 by caseback

[Knebo]

1 hour ago, caseback said:

That is very odd. The Dutch seller has been active for 12 years and has sufficient (and recent) positive feedback registered. Marktplaats is an ebay company and so is Kleinanzeigen (I believe Kleinanzeigen is owned by Marktplaats and they are owned by ebay..) and Marktplaats indicates they have verified the sellers identity and bank account number. On the other hand, the German seller has been active since 2021 and also has received positive feedback. Neither of the sellers would have risen a red flag.. I have asked the Dutch seller why his photo's also show up in a German site. It could well be he is both Dutch and German based. He wouldn't be the only one. I'll let you know what his/her response is.

 

I contacted the Dutch seller and he confirmed it is indeed the same/his machine. I advised him to mention that in both Marktplaats and Kleinanzeigen to avoid raising unneccessary suspicions

The seller that scammed me on Kleinanzeigen.de was also rated well and had a long-standing account. It's easy for a scammer to create several accounts and give themselves good feedback. My scammer also sent me an Id card that wasn't his (as I later found out). Scammers steal identities and accounts. I might be over-cautious now, but as they say "fool me once..." 

Also on eBay, two fake buyers tried to scam me. They also had well-rated accounts. They probably hacked these accounts altogether. In that case, they contacted me outside of eBay and then pretended to pay into an HSBC escrow account. But the confirmation email coming from "HSBC" was a fake. 

 

Anyway, let's please also talk about this Nestromo watch cleaning machine! 

[tomh207]

I do admire the philosophy of the innovation and manufacturing in the home country in Germany. However I do have a feeling it is flawed in several ways. It would seem to me to be able to recreate a , now traditional style Elma/L&R style device to retail for a little more but still less than the heinous asking price we now see for the vintage stuff that we will likely have to do work on to make it safe and work properly.

Some of the stuff members here have achieved for much less money I think are as good and in some cases better. OK, you don’t get a warranty with a hand knitted one but you do know how it works, went together and where to get comparable parts.

 

just my comments on it.

 

Tom

Oh, just remembered, as @Neverenoughwatches will, I did say it’s just a whirly thing

[Knebo]

24 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

However I do have a feeling it is flawed in several ways

Could you elaborate on the flaws you see?

 

25 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Some of the stuff members here have achieved for much less money I think are as good and in some cases better.

I agree that there are some cool DIY machines out there in our forum members' homes. I've looked at them carefully. A few things that I'm missing in most members' DIY machines in comparison to this Nestromo one:

- most DIY machines from forum members are large (including the stand)
- I don't think I've seen one with bi-directional rotation
- most don't "keep a lid" on the jars when spinning excess liquid. With the solvents, I think that's a factor I consider relatively important.
- many DIY machines require access to (and skill with) a 3D printer and that's also a lot of work that we need to factor into any price comparisons.

I hope this doesn't sound like criticism of any member's achievements of DIY machines. If anything, I'm trying to be constructive. I am really full of admiration for the machines you've built! I honestly don't feel capable to do it myself (in most cases).  

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, Knebo said:

Hi all,

I've been looking for a watch cleaning machine for a while. At the moment, I'm using a three-jar setup in a cheap ultrasonic cleaner. It works well, but I have a lot of cross-contamination between the jars because I can't properly spin of excess liquid after each stage. In my quest to find a machine, I've basically wanted to buy a Elma Super Elite, but despite looking for months, I've not found one below 750 EUR. Last night, one was sold in an eBay auction (!) for 1000 (incl shipping within Europe). And I got scammed and lost 500 EUR when trying to buy one that seemed a good deal.... very painful. I've also looked a various other machines, such as the Indian Pearl machines, Glashütte machines, and "Vibrasonic" models. Long story short: I've not yet found my luck.

NOW: there's a new super-compact machine on the market. Basically a guy in Germany that created his own DIY machine and is now selling it. Compared to all the DIY machines that we've discussed on the forum, this one is very compact and without a big stand. It sits directly on the jar.

Well, just have a look yourselves: https://nestromo.com/products/compact-watch-cleaning-machine
Make sure to scroll down to see the video (it's a bit hidden among the pictures).

My idea of using it is the following:

get the machine with 5 jars (the jars are cheap and generic). 
- 1 glass for washing + 1 for spinning washing fluid
- 2 glasses for rinsing + 1 for spinning rinsing fluid
= total of 5 jars. 

Thoughts:

pros: 
+ savings of a few hundred compared to Elma Super Elite on the current market
+ bidirectional spinning!!
+ small size 

cons:
- seems very expensive for what it is (but the engineer insists that most parts are Made in Germany and that about 10h of handwork goes into finishing the product). But well, still much cheaper than the Elma.
- biggest con is the absence of a heater for drying! but that's where a DIY solution could be figure out (silicone heating pads with adjustable temperature can be bought on AliX for 20 EUR. Add a tube of some sort and let the machine rest on it.
- spinning off liquid isn't as "elegant" as on the Elma (instead of a "plunger" within the same jar, one has to move to a dedicated spinning jar).

 

What are your thoughts!!??

 

There has been versions of this over the last few years. I even thought about making one a couple of years ago, i talked myself out of it for some reason, i think it was the inconvenience of the spinning off and drying that put me off. But simple enough to make.....this is  just a very neat little unit. I wouldn't swap my set-up that is nothing like this ...that i cobbled together for anything. 

Edited November 11 by Neverenoughwatches

[tomh207]

You pointed out yourself some of the flaws around around spinning off and the jars. I also have concerns about the injection moulded plastics, with the old stuff that is metal and unlikely to need replacing, plastic I’m not so sure. Your comment about the forum diy solutions confuse me, weren’t you originally looking for a “traditional “ Watch part” cleaning machine? That would be much larger than anything I’ve seen here.

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, tomh207 said:

 

Oh, just remembered, as @Neverenoughwatches will, I did say it’s just a whirly thing

that it is Tom, look at your washing machine , most of the plan will come from there.  It spins one way and then the other......chuck in a few agitation ideas and you have the perfect watch part cleaner. I guarantee its doable for less than 100 smackers......wayyyy less

Edited November 11 by Neverenoughwatches

[Knebo]

7 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

I also have concerns about the injection moulded plastics, with the old stuff that is metal and unlikely to need replacing, plastic I’m not so sure

Well, I don't know either. But the new Elma basket frames are also plastic. And some of the forum's DIY creators have also successfully used plastic. 

 

8 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Your comment about the forum diy solutions confuse me, weren’t you originally looking for a “traditional “ Watch part” cleaning machine? That would be much larger than anything I’ve seen here.

Hahaha, yes, you got me there

I'd probably still like a vintage Elma the most, and I'd be ok with the size. But the small size of the Nestromo is a plus. And then I compared the Nestromo with the DIY machines. So yea, not fully consistent, I suppose.. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Well, I don't know either. But the new Elma basket frames are also plastic. And some of the forum's DIY creators have also successfully used plastic. 

Not all plastics are equal, some cleaning solutions play havoc with certain plastics. I posted a chart a couple of years back, comparing the reactivity of various types.

Similar concerned thoughts were discussed as to the use of plastic oil pots.

Leaching their makeup into that insanely expensive product.

49 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Could you elaborate on the flaws you see?

 

I agree that there are some cool DIY machines out there in our forum members' homes. I've looked at them carefully. A few things that I'm missing in most members' DIY machines inj comparison to this Nestromo one:

- most DIY machines from forum members are large (including the stand)
- I don't think I've seen one with bi-directional rotation
- most don't "keep a lid" on the jars when spinning excess liquid. With the solvents, I think that's a factor I consider relatively important.
- many DIY machines require access to (and skill with) a 3D printer and that's also a lot of work that we need to factor into any price comparisons.

I hope this doesn't sound like criticism of any member's achievements of DIY machines. If anything, I'm trying to be constructive. I am really full of admiration for the machines you've built! I honestly don't feel capable to do it myself (in most cases).  

 

I can answer to all of your list knebo. Mine is not large....the cleaning machine that is.....it is bi-directional.....also in relation to the cleaning machine....it can have a lid on during the spin off, and no 3D printer required and finally very diy-abubble

[Knebo]

13 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Not all plastics are equal, some cleaning solutions play havoc with certain plastics. I posted a chart a couple of years back, comparing the reactivity of various types.

Similar concerned thoughts were discussed as to the use of plastic oil pots.

Leaching their makeup into that insanely expensive product.

I've been communicating directly with the Nestromo/designer. He's tested it will all the common fluids, including the solvents and ammoniated/waterless fluids. And a year into sales, he's not had any complaints about the material. 

The plastic is also ok with temperatures up to 120 °C. So putting the whole basket in the oven (at <60 °C to be safe with shellac) for drying is ok. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

One dc power supply.....one dc motor, one something to hold the dc motor....to lower and raise the motor.....one dc motor programmer.....some square jars.....add some agitation devices to square jars......some aptitude to make a few basket holders designing in slme more agitation and then cobble all the bits together. 

[tomh207]

Caveat emptor as always, he is trying to sell you something at the end of the day.

my I have gotten so cynical in my old age!

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Caveat emptor as always, he is trying to sell you something at the end of the day.

my I have gotten so cynical in my old age!

 

Tom

It be ok to have this neat little unit i guess but what guarantee does it have ? Providing the seller is still around that is. How much is the main component if that stops working, can you get spare jars if one breaks. Theres a lot to be said for nipping down to your local hardware shop to grab another jar or buying half a dozen for 20 bucks.....jumping onto ebay to buy another motor for 15-20 bucks......swapping out any part yourself in minutes for very little cash. I like reliability....i like changability just as much.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, tomh207 said:

my I have gotten so cynical in my old age!

 

Haven't we all Tom ....with age comes experience....with experience comes wisdom......wise to the negative side of human nature.......self preservation

[Knebo]

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

It be ok to have this neat little unit i guess but what guarantee does it have ? Providing the seller is still around that is. How much is the main component if that stops working, can you get spare jars if one breaks. Theres a lot to be said for nipping down to your local hardware shop to grab another jar or buying half a dozen for 20 bucks.....jumping onto ebay to buy another motor for 15-20 bucks......swapping out any part yourself in minutes for very little cash. I like reliability....i like changability just as much.

It has a 1 year warranty and the jars are generic ones that can be bought anywhere for 4-5 bucks a piece. Sure, the motor and the rest probably can't be replaced by the buyer.. 

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

One dc power supply.....one dc motor, one something to hold the dc motor....to lower and raise the motor.....one dc motor programmer.....some square jars.....add some agitation devices to square jars......some aptitude to make a few basket holders designing in slme more agitation and then cobble all the bits together. 

You make it sound very easy. But to me, it's not. I have no idea about a dc motor programmer (or how to use it) nor designing in slme (never heard that word/acronym) and I don't have a 3D printer. And I'm working full time (and wife, too) with a 4-year-old son. So not much time to figure it out (any time I have, I'd rather spend on a watch). 

 

How about we forget about the price for a moment (or imagine it was 200) and only focus on the function (compared to Elma or your DIY)? 

[VWatchie]

This is OT but related, and I've mentioned it before. Greases like Moebius 9404 and Molykote DX don't come off in traditional cleaning machines with only a rotating action 

EDIT: It just dawned on me. Perhaps this is the reason ETA in their technical documentation is so keen on using oil (HP-1300) instead of grease. Sorry for being OT.

Edited November 12 by VWatchie

[praezis]

2 hours ago, Knebo said:

It has a 1 year warranty

Has it? Legal warranty in Germany is 2 years.

2 hours ago, Knebo said:

and the jars are generic ones that can be bought anywhere for 4-5 bucks a piece.

Are those the famous „Weck“ jars, available for many decades? Weck went bankrupt last year. 

The whole machine reminds me of this ELMA of the early 1950s

Frank

[Knebo]

9 minutes ago, praezis said:

Has it? Legal warranty in Germany is 2 years.

Are those the famous „Weck“ jars, available for many decades? Weck went bankrupt last year. 

The whole machine reminds me of this ELMA of the early 1950s

Frank

Must be 2 years warranty then. His website refers to "gesetzlichen Gewährleistungsrechte".

 

The design of that (true) manual Elma machine is great because it also has the plunger to spinning within the same glass. The lack of that is my No1 disappointment in the Nestromo machine.

 

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

This is OT but related, and I've mentioned it before. Greases like Moebius 9404 and Molykote DX don't come off in traditional cleaning machines with only a rotating action 

EDIT: It just dawned on me. Perhaps this is the reason ETA in their technical documentation is so keen on using oil (HP-1300) instead of grease. Sorry for being OT.

Yes! I'm actually determined on finding a way of incorporating US-cleaning. Currently, I only use US, but don't have a way of spinning off the excess liquid when changing between jars.

I was wondering if I could just put the whole jar with the Nestromo cleaner into my US machine. That would allow US paired with low-speed spinning. 

But I'm worried that the vibration of the US may damage the Nestromo machine/motor. What do you guys think? 

Alternatively, I'll just get a basket with a handle and will put the complete cleaning basket in the US for a few minutes. Then screw it onto the Nestromo.

 

For all of you with DIY cleaners (with high stands), this should also be easy for you to incorporate. Just put your jar in a US machine while the basket is held by the stand.

[tomh207]

@Knebo have a look at @Neverenoughwatches latest, he has done the mixer into us bath already 

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 hours ago, Knebo said:

You make it sound very easy

Because it is matey, my knowledge of electrical and electronic devises isvery limited. All the parts I mentioned are bought as a whole and only need wiring together......just a few wires to connect power to programmer to motor. The programmer comes with instructions of how to input it's functions which are merely time delayed clockwise and counter clockwise set speed rotations with gradual increase and decrease of speed between them. 

5 hours ago, Knebo said:

nor designing in slme (never heard that word/

Lol SOME, predictive text that I failed to notice, i do it often.....just found out i have dyslexia.....quite bad actually. I have read reread and reread again. 

5 hours ago, Knebo said:

and I don't have a 3D printer.

You dont need one. 

2 hours ago, praezis said:

Has it? Legal warranty in Germany is 2 years.

Are those the famous „Weck“ jars, available for many decades? Weck went bankrupt last year. 

The whole machine reminds me of this ELMA of the early 1950s

Frank

Thats bloody brilliant Frank, i would just need to get the missus involved to turn the handle while i disappear to make myself a cuppa, it'll keep her quiet for 10 minutes so thats a bonus.   " oy sweetheart do you wanna come wind me up "  she'd jump at the chance to get her own back.......yes i annoy the hell out of her  

3 hours ago, Knebo said:

For all of you with DIY cleaners (with high stands), this should also be easy for you to incorporate. Just put your jar in a US machine while the basket is held by the

I'm not 100% keen on the whole idea of the  jar , carrier, baskets thing.  I say this lots and it still question's my brain, " what about all these barriers " how effective are the cavitations at penetrating them ?  When i use an ultrasonic, i like to cut out as many barriers as i can.....this idea doesnt lend itself well tk the convenience of dropping your full rotary basket into a jar of fluids in the USM

I hang the plates and bridges from wires and the train wheels etc from little wire trees.....only the very small parts go into an open basket. 

Doing it this way means that there is barely anything to spin off. With conventional baskets..... most of the fluid that remains is trapped within the baskets themselves. The heater does also need to penetrate those same barriers we talked about. The little wire trees and open basket allows for direct airflow and heat for drying.

On the naked parts.........yep i said naked parts........grow the hell up

[Nestromo]

On 11/11/2024 at 5:12 PM, Knebo said:

Hi all,

I've been looking for a watch cleaning machine for a while. At the moment, I'm using a three-jar setup in a cheap ultrasonic cleaner. It works well, but I have a lot of cross-contamination between the jars because I can't properly spin of excess liquid after each stage. In my quest to find a machine, I've basically wanted to buy a Elma Super Elite, but despite looking for months, I've not found one below 750 EUR. Last night, one was sold in an eBay auction (!) for 1000 (incl shipping within Europe). And I got scammed and lost 500 EUR when trying to buy one that seemed a good deal.... very painful. I've also looked a various other machines, such as the Indian Pearl machines, Glashütte machines, and "Vibrasonic" models. Long story short: I've not yet found my luck.

NOW: there's a new super-compact machine on the market. Basically a guy in Germany that created his own DIY machine and is now selling it. Compared to all the DIY machines that we've discussed on the forum, this one is very compact and without a big stand. It sits directly on the jar.

Well, just have a look yourselves: https://nestromo.com/products/compact-watch-cleaning-machine
Make sure to scroll down to see the video (it's a bit hidden among the pictures).

My idea of using it is the following:

get the machine with 5 jars (the jars are cheap and generic). 
- 1 glass for washing + 1 for spinning washing fluid
- 2 glasses for rinsing + 1 for spinning rinsing fluid
= total of 5 jars. 

Thoughts:

pros: 
+ savings of a few hundred compared to Elma Super Elite on the current market
+ bidirectional spinning!!
+ small size 

cons:
- seems very expensive for what it is (but the engineer insists that most parts are Made in Germany and that about 10h of handwork goes into finishing the product). But well, still much cheaper than the Elma.
- biggest con is the absence of a heater for drying! but that's where a DIY solution could be figure out (silicone heating pads with adjustable temperature can be bought on AliX for 20 EUR. Add a tube of some sort and let the machine rest on it.
- spinning off liquid isn't as "elegant" as on the Elma (instead of a "plunger" within the same jar, one has to move to a dedicated spinning jar).

 

What are your thoughts!!??

 

Hi this is Torsten, I am the guy from germany who did this. I saw the traffic from this site and thought I should pay a visit. First thank you Knebo for your initial post. I find it very balanced, you understood the spirit. Let me elaborate a little.

The criticism about the basket is not necessarily correct but understandable. It is doing well in watch cleaning solutions, no complains so far and the oldest machine is now 11 month in action. But the machine deserves a stainless steel basket, I think. If you hold the machine in your hand, the heaviness it really lives up to the quality of an Elma basket. I actually contacted them and asked for permission, an apprentice wrote me back I could buy if I want. Not sure what to make out of it.

What else, yes, the spinning. Not elegant, it is true. I could extend the rod and use taller jars but it makes the imbalance much more visible and also increases the force on the bearings of the motor. 

Some customers ask for a rectangular stand with six slots, so they spin off the extract fluid in an extra jar and water and IPA in another. They took it without the ends and chrome foots for 50 bugs, just the 2x 3-jar-rack fixed together.

Yes, the heater gives room for DIY-Solution. I recommend to use IPA in the end, water will be displaced and IPA evaporates. I recommend that because I don't need to develop an heater then:). Of course people have their own minds.

About flaws: The motor, the electronics and the overall design, I developed 2 years full-time to make it work as expected and ever since I improve manufacturing and testing to assure my own quality standards, that could not be higher. If anything is odd, I will ask the machine back and pay for the transport. This happened about 5 times now, one even from Oklahoma. One Flaw really is my delivery time, no matter what I say I need a week longer, this is terrible, but thanks goodness private customers have more patience than commercial ones. 

By the way, since today, the direction change interval is now fixed to 30 seconds (former 3 minutes) and disabled when spinning. Multiple customers asked for that.

Thanks again to everyone in this thread, all the comments show very substantial knowledge! Let me express my gratitude with a picture of the alu-case after the moulding.

Cheers,

Torsten

[RichardHarris123]

Hello @Nestromo, I  think you have every right to defend your product but care needs to be taken not to advertise or mention sales.  Neither are allowed on the forum.