ETA 2834-2 Day Wheel does not advance

[GuyMontag]

Pre-service the watch would not wind and in hand setting mode the hands could only be advanced forward, not backwards. Both the quickset day and date worked as did advancing the day/date in timesetting mode.

I lubricated as per the ETA tech sheet. After placing the day wheel and testing the quickset function, the date would advance but the day would not. Putting into time setting mode (not in the video), the date advances but the day does not fully advance, it looks like it goes about half way. I only went around a full 24 hours twice as it's real pain to do with a split stem, so not really sure if that is representative.

I swapped in a day disk from a donor 2834 and it had the same issues.

Nothing is jumping out at me that could be causing this. Any suggestions as to what it could be or what to try next?

The video starts out with the watch in quickset mode and turning the stem CCW which should advance the day wheel when present, then I start turning CW which does advance the date.

 

 

Edited November 4 by GuyMontag

[GuyMontag]

I asked this question on facebook, a little follow-up after replies. I realize that the day wheel goes through two smaller jumps to do a full day jump. I am turning FOREVER and the day doesn't change, so it isn't that I'm not turning enough.

I'm fairly confident that the Day Wheel is not riding on top of the Double Corrector (Day and Date jumper) as I was looking out for that and angled the Day Wheel when placing it and once it was placed I put light pressure on the Day Wheel while rotating it and felt is snap into place.

The fact that both day and date quickset worked pre-service (as did the day/date change in time setting mode) makes me think there is an issue in my assembly, but I can't find it and this isn't a particularly difficult movement to work on so I'm kind of at a loss as to what it could be.

 

Edited November 4 by GuyMontag

[nevenbekriev]

Well, there is a hole on the day wheel that is small, but still You can position it as to observe if the small wheel with 2 paws rotates or no. Does it rotate?

Edited November 4 by nevenbekriev

[HectorLooi]

I did one of these a couple of months ago. When installing the day disc, you have to apply some downwards pressure while rotating the disc to seat it completely and engage the day detent spring. To confirm that it has seated properly, if the day disc is rotated with a wood stick, it should snap to the next position.

[Nucejoe]

7 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

I'm fairly confident that the Day Wheel is not riding on top of the Double Corrector (Day and Date jumper) as I was looking out for that and angled the Day Wheel when placing it and once it was placed I put light pressure on the Day Wheel while rotating it and felt is snap into place.

Not sure if you have bent the day corrector lever, but shouldn't try to just push the day disc home without holding the corrector lever back. There are holes near day disc centre, through which you can insert a needle to hold the corrector lever back, push down the day disc home, release the lever. 

 

 

 

 

[GuyMontag]

9 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Well, there is a hole on the day wheel that is small, but still You can position it as to observe if the small wheel with 2 paws rotates or no. Does it rotate?

Yes, I can see the two arms of the day corrector rotating as I turn the stem.

 

8 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I did one of these a couple of months ago. When installing the day disc, you have to apply some downwards pressure while rotating the disc to seat it completely and engage the day detent spring. To confirm that it has seated properly, if the day disc is rotated with a wood stick, it should snap to the next position.

I can feel the spring snap into place as I seat the day disc and then when I manually rotate the day disc I can feel it snapping into place. However, turning the stem in quickset mode doesn't advance the day.
 

 

6 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Not sure if you have bent the day corrector lever, but shouldn't try to just push the day disc home without holding the corrector lever back. There are holes near day disc centre, through which you can insert a needle to hold the corrector lever back, push down the day disc home, release the lever. 

 

 

 

 

The spring doesn't appear to be bent. I tried to slip an oiler in the hole in the day disc to pull the spring out of the way but I am not able to get access, the hole is too far away from the spring. Seems like they a better design would have been to put the hole right over top of where the spring is.  I can feel the disc snapping into place as it rotates so I believe the day disc is situated correctly.

 

I'm going to try swapping in a donor day corrector then the double jumper and see if that fixes it, although, the fact that the day/date changed correctly pre-service should mean it won't make a difference as the existing parts should be fine, but I'm not sure what else to try.

Edited November 4 by GuyMontag

[HectorLooi]

Do you have a spare 2824/2836 winding stem? That would make it easier than struggling with a split stem.

[GuyMontag]

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

Do you have a spare 2824/2836 winding stem? That would make it easier than struggling with a split stem.

I don't, none of the donor movements I have on hand have a stem.

I think I have the day change issue sorted. I believe what was happening was that when I was winding the stem (using an etachron adjustment tool) I was bumping into the plastic movement holder, which would raise it slightly, which would then raise the day disc causing it to no longer be in contact with the day corrector. When I took the movement holder off and then changed the day and date it worked fine. It's now cased and I can change the day with no issue.

However, pre-service I noticed that the watch couldn't be wound and I couldn't move the hands backwards. I thought it may be something in the motion/keyless works but as it turns out it is the crown. It is  a split-stem screw down crown and when I turn it counter clockwise it works fine, but if I turn it clockwise the crown just rotates around the split-stem, so the stem doesn't actually turn.

This is on a vintage Mido so I'm not hopeful of easily finding a new crown. I'm not very familiar with screw down crowns, is it possible to somehow repair it?

Edited November 4 by GuyMontag

[AndyGSi]

You could try loctite or crimping it.

[GuyMontag]

6 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

You could try loctite or crimping it.

I'm not entirely sure about the internals but I know there is a spring in there. Wouldn't using loctite defeat that? Would I have to first pull the split-stem completely out of the crown? If it's threaded and not friction fit into the crown I don't think I'd be able to unscrew it. Before servicing I always attempt to remove the crown from the stem and if I am able to I use loctite and if I'm not I figure it doesn't need loctite and leave it alone. I tried that on this crown before servicing and with the stem in a pin vise it I couldn't get the crown to unscrew from the stem.

[AndyGSi]

1 hour ago, GuyMontag said:

I'm not entirely sure about the internals but I know there is a spring in there. Wouldn't using loctite defeat that? Would I have to first pull the split-stem completely out of the crown? If it's threaded and not friction fit into the crown I don't think I'd be able to unscrew it. Before servicing I always attempt to remove the crown from the stem and if I am able to I use loctite and if I'm not I figure it doesn't need loctite and leave it alone. I tried that on this crown before servicing and with the stem in a pin vise it I couldn't get the crown to unscrew from the stem.

Sorry I'd hadn't picked up on the screw down part.

Have you tried holding the stem and then pulling the crown to see if the spring isn't forcing the crown out enough to engage.

[GuyMontag]

1 hour ago, AndyGSi said:

Sorry I'd hadn't picked up on the screw down part.

Have you tried holding the stem and then pulling the crown to see if the spring isn't forcing the crown out enough to engage.

No joy, pulling the crown didn't move the stem.