Piecing together a 6105-8000 & chapter ring question

[tIB]

I decided to take on a challenge of putting together an all original Seiko 6105-8000 from parts... so far I have an original dial, hands and movement housed in a (very good!) homage case: 

The dial is far from perfect - it's had some damage and a touch up having that 'automatic' text redone. It has personality though! 

Finally pulled the trigger on an original '69 case today which should land in the next week or so... that's the case, caseback, bezel ring (though not insert) and really rough looking chapter ring sorted. There's a crystal fitted too though I'm pretty sure it's not correct and plan to use the one I cleaned up from my 8110...

I have questions about that chapter ring: is it the same on both 6105 diver models and/or does anyone know the dimensions of it? Used in any other models? Interested to know if anyone has repainted and has any tips there? I guess I should possibly ask in another thread but I'll see if I get any answers here first. 

So yeah, will update... There's a few bits I'll need to keep an eye out for, most notably the crown and bezel insert... I've a repro fat 'lock' style repro one coming I can use in the meantime and I've plenty of non original insert options... Looking forward to getting that case!

Edited October 28 by tIB
Fixed model number, sorry!

[AndyGSi]

1 hour ago, tIB said:

I have questions about that chapter ring: is it the same on both 6105 diver models and/or does anyone know the dimensions of it? Used in any other models? Interested to know if anyone has repainted and has any tips there? I guess I should possibly ask in another thread but I'll see if I get any answers here first. 

So the chapter ring on the 6105-8000 is a 83070954 which was also used on the 8009

Edit

The 8000 (320W10GN) & 8100 (310T10AN) crystals aren't the same size.

Edited October 28 by AndyGSi

[tIB]

57 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

So the chapter ring on the 6105-8000 is a 83070954 which was also used on the 8009

Edit

The 8000 (320W10GN) & 8100 (310T10AN) crystals aren't the same size.

Thanks for the info on chapter ring - I think I'm right in saying both slim and fat diver/Willard's share the same 320W10GN00 crystal and gasket set up, with a different method of attaching the rotating bezel?

 (Incidentally there's a 8100 case and dial on eBay right now)

Edited October 28 by tIB

[AndyGSi]

15 minutes ago, tIB said:

Thanks for the info on chapter ring - I think I'm right in saying both slim and fat diver/Willard's share the same 320W10GN00 crystal and gasket set up, with a different method of attaching the rotating bezel?

 (Incidentally there's a 8100 case and dial on eBay right now)

Everywhere I've looked is showing the 8100 as 310T10AN or 310T16 or 310T48

Edited October 28 by AndyGSi

[tIB]

16 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Everywhere I've looked is showing the 8100 as 310T10AN or 310T16 or 310T48

Apologies, I think I've caused some confusion from my original post by listing the wrong case number for that crystal I plan to use: it's from an 8110 - looking back I must have misstyped it! Will fix.

 

But yes - the 8000 and 8110 share crystal specs I believe?! 

[AndyGSi]

5 minutes ago, tIB said:

Apologies, I think I've caused some confusion from my original post by listing the wrong case number for that crystal I plan to use: it's from an 8110 - looking back I must have misstyped it! Will fix.

 

But yes - the 8000 and 8110 share crystal specs I believe?! 

Yes the 8110 is also the 320W10

[tIB]

I'd forgotten the dial/chapter ring seats the crystal gasket as well... assuming it's correct I think I'll have to strip and repaint the one (I hope is) in the case. 

Leaving these here to help me later on... (Think it's probably from the later 6106 sports divers but it's the same approach I think)

 

Edited October 28 by tIB

[AndyGSi]

Looks the same as this.

[tIB]

9 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Looks the same as this.

It does, almost, though that's actually added to my confusion around the dial ring setup - that's as I remember it from my 8110, though the diagram I posted above (and more importantly parts I've seen for sale) has the dial ring going deeper into the case with the glass gasket seated on top of it (as opposed to on top of the rear edge of the dial ring and the case itself as shown in the diagram you posted). If you compare the dial ring in that picture and the one I posted (from a different model I think) you'll see what I'm rambling on about. 

 

The dial ring I've seen are listed for both models but maybe there's a difference between the 8000 and 8110? The parts catalogue I looked at has them as the same part though afaik (unless I'm reading it wrong). I've actually seen three different parts numbers listed for sale as the dial ring for both models so I'm not sure what's going on there. 

 

Not to worry - I'll see where I'm at when the case lands... Assuming the correct ring is in there I think the simplest thing would be to strip and repaint. 

Edited October 29 by tIB

[tIB]

Think I've finally sussed that the 8000/8009 and 8110/8119 have different dial rings! 

[AndyGSi]

13 minutes ago, tIB said:

Think I've finally sussed that the 8000/8009 and 8110/8119 have different dial rings! 

Yes the 8110/8119 has a 83070946 ring compared to the 8000/8009 which has a 83070954

[tIB]

13 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Yes the 8110/8119 has a 83070946 ring compared to the 8000/8009 which has a 83070954

That's it, thanks - I see that I read the case parts catalogue wrong now!

[tIB]

So assuming all is correct I think is correct with the case, I think all I'm short of is a bezel insert (I have the bezel but the ring has been replaced with a different models somewhere along the line) and crown. 

I think finding an original bezel insert in reasonable condition might be a very long game, but crown wise does anyone have any tips on distinguishing an original from a reproduction? 

[AndyGSi]

33 minutes ago, tIB said:

So assuming all is correct I think is correct with the case, I think all I'm short of is a bezel insert (I have the bezel but the ring has been replaced with a different models somewhere along the line) and crown. 

I think finding an original bezel insert in reasonable condition might be a very long game, but crown wise does anyone have any tips on distinguishing an original from a reproduction? 

Can you confirm what you mean by bezel insert?

The only true way I've found with a crown is sealed in original packet.

[tIB]

40 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Can you confirm what you mean by bezel insert?

The only true way I've found with a crown is sealed in original packet.

Bezel wise it looks to have the correct bezel itself (metal ring) but with an incorrect 'insert' fitted some time after - while I know from the factory they come as one (ie Seiko sold the bezel and insert together as one item) it looks like in this case someone has pulled out the insert and fitted something else. I'll add some pictures once it's here...

I feared that might be the case on the crown - I've been looking at pictures and one I figured was reproduction was deemed legit by some on another forum... I need to work out whether there actually was a period of time when these came with the 'lock' crown from the later model, and whether that fits with the case itself timewise, since I know what to look for better there.

While I'd much rather have the Seiko labelled crown, I could settle with the latter one if correct and there's less chance of me spending original cash on a repro. 

[AndyGSi]

This is what an original crown should look like.

Compared to an aftermarket that has a lot more slope to the letters and no proper notches between the bottoms of the letters.

Edit

If think with the bezel insert you'll probably have to go for an aftermarket or look for a complete NOS bezel.

 

 

Edited October 31 by AndyGSi

[tIB]

30 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

This is what an original crown should look like.

Compared to an aftermarket that has a lot more slope to the letters and no proper notches between the bottoms of the letters.

Edit

If think with the bezel insert you'll probably have to go for an aftermarket or look for a complete NOS bezel.

 

 

That's really good info on the crown thanks - just what I needed!

On the 'lock' thing I'd misread some info about there being an 8000 with one fitted in an old JDM brochure - it's actually the other way around in that there's an 8119 with the older style signed crown. 

Bezel wise I've a short term plan (really good repro) and in the longer term I'll see what, if anything, I can find - I think you are right in that it would have to be complete if NOS, and I suspect that would be very spendy... 

Incidentally I found a really good timeline  of the 6105s and their intricacies of the odd variations within - I'll upload if anyone is interested. Assume because it was freely shared elsewhere I'd be ok doing that. 

 

 

[tIB]

Case is here! 

 

[AndyGSi]

32 minutes ago, tIB said:

Case is here! 

 

I( think that dial ring is too far gone for a repaint.

 

[tIB]

2 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

I( think that dial ring is too far gone for a repaint.

 

I think you're probably right - I'll be on the lookout...

 

Dial ring aside I'm happy - spent the last couple of hours clearing gunk. Case bezel and back all good - no surprises. 

I'll spend a bit of time on that dial ring tomorrow and make the same call you (and I already) made on first sight! It's out of the case which is good.

[AndyGSi]

52 minutes ago, tIB said:

I think you're probably right - I'll be on the lookout...

There are a few currently on eBay but I'd be interested in a close up photo once it's
cleaned to see the intricacies as I wonder if one could be machined or even cast.

[tIB]

41 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

There are a few currently on eBay but I'd be interested in a close up photo once it's
cleaned to see the intricacies as I wonder if one could be machined or even cast.

I've wondered about machining - need to show the old man and see what he thinks... he's handy on a lathe. 

 

Edit: I am going to have a proper look at the one in there tomorrow - might work. Reasons why I definitely shouldn't?

Edited November 1 by tIB

[AndyGSi]

38 minutes ago, tIB said:

I've wondered about machining - need to show the old man and see what he thinks... he's handy on a lathe. 

 

Edit: I am going to have a proper look at the one in there tomorrow - might work. Reasons why I definitely shouldn't?

No harm in having a look but there just appears to be too much that's corroded away.

I think it's something that would be better milled than spun on a lathe.

[tIB]

16 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

No harm in having a look but there just appears to be too much that's corroded away.

I think it's something that would be better milled than spun on a lathe.

I'm sure you're right about milling - I didn't inherit my old man's technical savvy!

While I'm pretty sure I'll end up buying a dial ring at some point I'm currently trying to spruce this one up. It's not great but it might do me for a little while... we'll see what it's like when it's dried. 

[tIB]

We'll see how it looks in the morning- stripped and repainted. It's rough, and  quite a bit glossier than I'd hoped for currently but it might tide me over...