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Seating the crystal stops the hands from moving


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This watch came from a watchmakers estate. It has an AS970 with a center sweep seconds hand. I am having an issue with the monocoque case where when I seat the crystal the watch stops. What is happening is that the seconds hand hits the top of the crystal (it has left a small indentation in the crystal where it has worn it away) and then the hands stop moving. 

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The movement goes into the case and then the crystal sits on top of the case, and then the bezel goes on over the crystal and is held in place with grub screws on the back of the watch.

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The image below shows the underside of the crystal with what appears to be some sort of repair job to the crystal gasket. I’m guessing the crystal isn’t the original and because the crystal isn’t high enough to clear the seconds hand, some gasket material was glued to the crystal to increase the height of the crystal, but not by enough. 

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I’m guessing I won’t be able to source a replacement crystal, but if anyone knows where I can find this style of crystal can you give a link to them?

If I can’t source a new crystal then I guess my next best solution is to try and add more or replace the current gasket with something thicker to get the crystal off of the seconds hand. Any suggestions as to 1) What kind of gasket should I use and where would I source it, and 2) would I need to glue it to the crystal like it currently is or can I just lay the gasket on the case and fit the crystal as normal?

 

Edited by GuyMontag
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I'm not sure if the hand is original or a replacement, but it has been in use for a while as it has worn a divot in the center of the crystal.

This is the side profile (bezel not 100% seated):

_DSC1354.thumb.jpg.3cda485044ee8ab7146584496316fd26.jpg

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You could dress the hands:

1) bend the tip of the minute hand down

2) correctly seat the minute hand (is tilted)

3) bend the tip of the sweep second hand down

Also the glass may be the wrong type, too flat. There are others with a steeper edge.

Frank

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13 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Although I think it's the wrong seconds hand the spacing looks right but the hour hand looks high from the dial.

The hands clear fine, the watch has been running for a couple of days. I'm trying to sort the crystal issue.

13 minutes ago, praezis said:

You could dress the hands:

1) bend the tip of the minute hand down

2) correctly seat the minute hand (is tilted)

3) bend the tip of the sweep second hand down

Also the glass may be the wrong type, too flat. There are others with a steeper edge.

Frank

 

I'm OK with how the hands are as the watch has been running for 2 days and they do not foul one another. And yes, I do believe the crystal is the wrong type. As per my original message I am trying to get help on two items:

1. I’m guessing I won’t be able to source a replacement crystal, but if anyone knows where I can find this style of crystal can you give a link to them?


2. If I can’t source a new crystal then I guess my next best solution is to try and add more or replace the current gasket with something thicker to get the crystal off of the seconds hand. Any suggestions as to 1) What kind of gasket should I use and where would I source it, and 2) would I need to glue it to the crystal like it currently is or can I just lay the gasket on the case and fit the crystal as normal?

Edited by GuyMontag
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You can cut the 'gasket' from old bank card or similar white plastic card. BUT, adding gasket will lift the upper case part from the base. Are You going to make the case water tight as it is meant to be?

Of course, You will not be able to source new crystal. It is rather possible to make one. Thin plexiglass sheet is needed...

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8 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

You can cut the 'gasket' from old bank card or similar white plastic card. BUT, adding gasket will lift the upper case part from the base. Are You going to make the case water tight as it is meant to be?

Of course, You will not be able to source new crystal. It is rather possible to make one. Thin plexiglass sheet is needed...

My thinking is that this isn't the original crystal and the original crystal sat a little taller than the current one does, so if I add additional thickness with a gasket it should bring the crystal back to the original height such that the water tightness isn't compromised. I'm thinking it only needs to be raised a fraction of a millimeter to clear the seconds hand.

I think the thickness of a bank card might be too thick though. Is it possible to purchase square gaskets?

I don't think making my own crystal is my skill wheelhouse, particularly one with a flange.
 

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19 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Of course, You will not be able to source new crystal. It is rather possible to make one. Thin plexiglass sheet is needed...

Looks to me like standard Sternkreuz R or Rr Acrylic.

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11 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

I think the thickness of a bank card might be too thick though. Is it possible to purchase square gaskets?
 

Well, then may be X-ray film (this days they print them on digital printers), Coca Cola can... Just look around.

I don' know much about purchasing watch parts, but doubt that there are such square gaskets for sale. 

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18 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Looks to me like standard Sternkreuz R or Rr Acrylic.

Thanks for the tip on those. It looks like the Sternkreuz  R doesn't have a flange, but the Sternkreuz U does and it looks like they make one with the correct dimensions. I'll order one and give it a shot.

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27 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

Thanks for the tip on those. It looks like the Sternkreuz  R doesn't have a flange, but the Sternkreuz U does and it looks like they make one with the correct dimensions. I'll order one and give it a shot.

Yes, I forgot about the fact it sits under the bezel.

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1 hour ago, nevenbekriev said:

Well, then may be X-ray film (this days they print them on digital printers), Coca Cola can... Just look around.

I don' know much about purchasing watch parts, but doubt that there are such square gaskets for sale. 

I wonder if 3D printing one with PLA would work? Might give that a shot.

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24 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

I wonder if 3D printing one with PLA would work? Might give that a shot.

You may find that the Sternkreuz is slightly deep which would solve your problem.

I've got various thickness of plastic sheet that I cut on a laser for dial spacers but being a square you could probably just cut one by hand with a scalpel.

 

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Yeah, Cousins has the height (and flange thickness) for almost all of the crystals on the underlayed page but for some reason not for the "URR Sternkreuz 19.9 x 19.9 x 21.9 x 21.9" crystal, which is the one I need. The Sternkreuz catalog, for some reason, only has the round underlayed crystals and not the square ones. Hopefully it is tall enough on it's own.

 

Edited by GuyMontag
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It's the wrong glass with all old sweep second hand movement it should have a high dome glass. Look on the net for someone who cut and fit shaped watch glasses. Remove the complete balance no need to send that and send the rest to them.  

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All the old tank watches that i own have a fancy crystal,  either a single ( barrel shape )or compound curves from all four sides which result in a dome that begin from flat edges or from the edges of a watch that has a curved case. Depending which shape you have are known as a military glass.

I have a few cases of fancy crystals but i think none have the wide ledge that fits under a bezel but i will have a look when i get home.

This is one of my oris that has a domed glass with cuved sides to match the shape of the case sides. Case sets of these fancy glasses often need to be trimmed and shaped by hand to fit .

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Trimming accurately to size to avoid gluing is time consuming working almost to the tolerances associated with the mechanical side of watches. Less than the usual incremental 0.1mm but thevtime and effort is worth it for the overall appearance. 

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4 hours ago, oldhippy said:

It's the wrong glass with all old sweep second hand movement it should have a high dome glass. Look on the net for someone who cut and fit shaped watch glasses. Remove the complete balance no need to send that and send the rest to them.  

Yes, I was going to suggest this but your case seemed simpler and a possible stock fit. Unfortunate for you but it’s good to know I can’t just order up a square hi dome from Cousins…

I have an old Gruen with a burned up square crystal . I contacted these people who were responsive to my inquiry. They estimated $30-40US to fit a new one to my Gruen case…

http://www.crystalfit.com

…and a long shot if you haven’t already checked but I see there some suppliers like Esslinger offering Cartier-style square/rectangle acrylic with a bit of clearance and they list measurements. Perhaps there’s something in your size?

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5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Trimming accurately to size to avoid gluing is time consuming working almost to the tolerances associated with the mechanical side of watches. Less than the usual incremental 0.1mm but thevtime and effort is worth it for the overall appearance. 

Yeah, I had another watch that I tried trimming a crystal to fit. It didn't go well 🙂

 

 

8 hours ago, oldhippy said:

It's the wrong glass with all old sweep second hand movement it should have a high dome glass. Look on the net for someone who cut and fit shaped watch glasses. Remove the complete balance no need to send that and send the rest to them.  

Good suggestion. If this one from Cousins doesn't fit that might be my best option.

 

3 hours ago, rehajm said:

Yes, I was going to suggest this but your case seemed simpler and a possible stock fit. Unfortunate for you but it’s good to know I can’t just order up a square hi dome from Cousins…

I have an old Gruen with a burned up square crystal . I contacted these people who were responsive to my inquiry. They estimated $30-40US to fit a new one to my Gruen case…

http://www.crystalfit.com

…and a long shot if you haven’t already checked but I see there some suppliers like Esslinger offering Cartier-style square/rectangle acrylic with a bit of clearance and they list measurements. Perhaps there’s something in your size?

I had looked previously on Esslinger but didn't see any square crystal with a flange but maybe I missed them. I bookmarked that crystalfit site in case the crystal from Cousins doesn't fit.

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2 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

Yeah, I had another watch that I tried trimming a crystal to fit. It didn't go well 🙂

Just takes some extra careful attention noting any chamfered edges to lock into the case lips and dont rush it, the finish is then back as the original . Get close to the size with a fine file then fine grit lapping film or sand paper to achieve the goal,  the end result is far above gluing the crystal imho.

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there are crystals out there, they are a flange type like the 3 below, you definitely need the gasket and correct crystal, there are given measurements listed on packages, your parts supply house may have some under the Sun or G&S brands.....I have cut gaskets from thin rubber with an exacto blade image.png.4818d504f50c49d27f3e9b0050b8cfd4.png

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1 hour ago, CYCLOPS said:

there are crystals out there, they are a flange type like the 3 below, you definitely need the gasket and correct crystal, there are given measurements listed on packages, your parts supply house may have some under the Sun or G&S brands.....I have cut gaskets from thin rubber with an exacto blade image.png.4818d504f50c49d27f3e9b0050b8cfd4.png

 

I have a crystal on order from Cousins, hopefully is tall enough. I like the idea of cutting a gasket from rubber, I see Amazon sells thin sheets, I'll probably give that a try.

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