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Hi, I have recently purchased a 1918 Waltham, size 16, grade 645, 21 jewel. It hasn't arrived yet, but I also ordered a size 16 salesman display case. It has Waltham Watch Co. stamped on the front and back bezel. What I didn't notice is that it is missing the crown. The watch I ordered comes in a 10k rolled gold plated case, but the crown looks smaller and like the stem will be much shorter. Does anyone know the measurements of the crown and stem that I will need for this setup and if there are any bits inside the crown housing bit on the case. The seller is unresponsive, and this is my first pocket watch, so I am absolutely unsure. Maybe someone has a similar setup that could enlighten me. I have supplied the eBay watch and salesman case pics (you can see the crown is missing). I have seen other salesman cases and know what the crown looks like, but after looking them up, I have noticed that they can have different stems. I'm very excited to get this beautiful watch. Many thanks in advance for your help.

Screenshot_20240912_051837_eBay.jpg

Screenshot_20240912_142721_eBay.jpg

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The Waltham 645 movements are not that rare, but ones still in the original case are quite scarce!

It's a lever-set, possibly a "Railroad" style? The case with the short stem was quite common with those.

I'd highly suggest you get another similar movement for the display case - I have three bare 16S 1908 series ones I got for £10 each; one such as those would be an ideal candidate to put in the extra case!

Sorry I can't help with the stem, I have not managed to get any case parts for my Walthams so far.

Info on your specific watch:

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/22035986

 

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3 hours ago, MKUltraBlack said:

missing the crown

3 hours ago, MKUltraBlack said:

crown and stem

you're going to have another itsy-bitsy problem here as we don't have x-ray eyes. So I'm going to make an assumption that you're missing the sleeve.

finding the sleeve will be an interesting aspect in fact finding all the parts will be quite interesting. This is where at least in the US if you still had a physical material house nearby that carried older parts you could send the case to them and let them find all the bits and pieces. Yes physical material houses still exist a lot of them are not online at all and the parts you need are typically not online. Although we have had discussions about sleeves and one of the online material house as those listed but you won't build do anything until you get your case to see how exactly all that goes together because as I said we don't have x-ray eyes to see what's happened to the top of your case.

 

 

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What do you mean by sleeve? The bit inside the winder/crown? I thought by looking at the style of the case, there are lots out there the exact shape and size, I thought the parts for the crown and winder would be relatively easy to find, or "universal" so to speak.

 

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if you remove the movement from its yellow case and then separate the stem and crown, you will see a sleeve inside that holds the stem. Does your salesman case have a screw in the post that holds the bow? It could be a different method of holding the stem.  We only see one side of case.  If the post is threaded inside if takes the standard sleeve....like your yellow case...

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probably the screw in sleeve style like your old case, it will be threaded inside, a sleeve wrench is used to remove and adjust the depth, but like said earlier you might have a hard time finding the correct size, maybe it will have the sleeve still in it and only missing the crown and stem or maybe your old cases sleeve will work, you will find out soon when you receive the case...image.png.2ac4cf4d423589f25904a82a84f105d5.png

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48 minutes ago, CYCLOPS said:

Does your salesman case have a screw

before the sleeve was invented typically found on 18 size lever set American pocket watches and others you will have a screw on the side like in the image below

image.png.916e4a8f78844cece78e6201624fbd47.png

 

1 hour ago, MKUltraBlack said:

What do you mean by sleeve? The bit inside the winder/crown? I thought by looking at the style of the case, there are lots out there the exact shape and size, I thought the parts for the crown and winder would be relatively easy to find, or "universal" so to speak.

let's see what universal looks like? so if universal you mean it depends upon the particular case and who manufactured it at a time where there were not exactly any standards then yes there universal. Kinda like a wheel for a car round they attached to the car there universal same thing.

image.png.d25e05ebb2c7c8349fee81b395d639c4.png

 

oh here's a link that has a few of them maybe they're not really universal?

https://www.ofrei.com/page441.html

 

Edited by JohnR725
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Wow, this is awesome information guys. Super appreciated. Diagrams, pics of tools etc. Really helpful. I'm thinking of getting the one with the crown included as it should have all the parts. Then I can compare and see what I need. And I'll be able to build a second watch for a side project.

I'll keep you posted on what happens and get some pics etc.

 

BTW, what is the consensus on putting custom dials on watches like this. Will I be burnt at the stake and banned from the forum, or.... 🙂

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The seller finally sent 1 message with a pic and "it's sent". So much for communication 😂 anyway, from the looks of the inside of the barrel there's no sleeve and the thread is at about 45° angle. Found a "NOS" (#ProbablyJustPolished) one on ebay. Looks like the business, says it'll do 12, 16, 18 etc. What do you guys reckon 🤔 

Screenshot_20240916_193553_eBay.jpg

Screenshot_20240916_201316_eBay.jpg

Screenshot_20240916_201400_eBay.jpg

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24 minutes ago, MKUltraBlack said:

and boxes of sleeves and crowns, he's gonna sort me out for a tenner

this is the unfortunate problem of sleeves and stems. The other day we had a incoming watch with a broken sleeve and we have several assortments of hundreds of them and as usual none of them were quite right. Which is why in the case of the watch I have somebody will take it down to the material house and hopefully she will bill the sort that out. Because there are way way more than just what that website shows and unfortunately not made any more so you need to find somebody it does have a huge assortment and you just have to be lucky.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

The Wizard did it 👌 I got the case back and went to take the movement out of the old case and broke the balance staff, went to 8 jewelers etc, all told me it would be a £300 service, had an old half watch (ww2 waltham) that I bought to try dial luming and put the balance wheel from that and as soon as I slid it into the palet, without even screwing down the balance plate, it started ticking 🙂 all working now, with balance and case all fine. Gonna get the case plated and re-line the box now. Thanks to everyone for their help and insight. Much appreciated 👌

20241006_032536.jpg

Edited by MKUltraBlack
Typo
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3 hours ago, MKUltraBlack said:

had an old half watch (ww2 waltham) that I bought to try dial luming and put the balance wheel from that and as soon as I slid it into the palet, without even screwing down the balance plate, it started ticking 🙂 all working now, with balance and case all fine. 

Really ? 

To be perfectly honest, sorry I'm really struggling to accept this .

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