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Omega Cal 161 Balance Staff From :-( To :-)


JimInOz

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I picked up this nice Omega pocket watch with a very clean dial and movement for about the cost of a nice bottle of single malt.

 

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The description stated that it did run but would stop so I took a chance. On first looking at the movement, the balance would run nicely in a face flat down position. As soon as it was tilted a load was placed on the upper pivot and it would stop. Hmmmmm..... I hope it's not a broken balance staff. Anyway, strip down to see what's going on.

 

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Removing the balance cock allowed me to check the lower pivot, no problem there but for a bit of wear.

 

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I removed the stud/balance/hairspring so I could see the upper pivot without straining or damaging the hairspring and that's when my worst fears were confirmed  :(

 

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I've checked Cousins in the UK but the balance staff is obsolete. In addition, I don't have a staking set to replace the staff even if I do get one (balance staffs.com etc).

 

So pocket watch gurus, any helpful suggestions?

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

 

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It's time you invested in a staking set Jim. I find it hard to believe that a man of your "horological calibre" and passion fit tools, doesn't have a set. Now you have the excuse to go and buy one.

Here's a link fir the staff that you require:- http://www.urdelar.se/omega?product_id=883

Good link Geo a new one to be saved.

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Nice P/W you have got there Jim. Tell me is it a silver case or metal?

 

 

Staking tools are a must I had two complete staking sets plus loads of punches, I even had a set of punches just for cylinders they sure came in handy. I think the pocket watch is worth far more then a bottle of single malt. Omega P/W's are collectors items and people will pay good money for such a watch.  Jim as you don't have a staking tool I assume you have never replaced a b/staff, may I suggest you get plenty of practice with something that is worthless and doesn't matter if you mess it up, watch plenty of videos as well because believe me it is not such an easy repair as it looks.  Do let us know how things go.

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Nice P/W you have got there Jim. Tell me is it a silver case or metal?

 

No hallmarks so I'd say it's nickel or plate over brass.

 

 

Staking tools are a must I had two complete staking sets plus loads of punches, I even had a set of punches just for cylinders they sure came in handy. I think the pocket watch is worth far more then a bottle of single malt. Omega P/W's are collectors items and people will pay good money for such a watch.  Jim as you don't have a staking tool I assume you have never replaced a b/staff, may I suggest you get plenty of practice with something that is worthless and doesn't matter if you mess it up, watch plenty of videos as well because believe me it is not such an easy repair as it looks.  Do let us know how things go.

 

After doing some research I'm in no doubt as to the learning curve required for this process. I think I'll have to lash out on a staking set.

 

I checked my junk boxes and found plenty of practice items to sharpen my skills before I attempt the Omega.

 

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It looks fine Jim. One important thing to check is that there are no broken pivots stuck in any if the hollow punches or the base plate. It's also worth considering purchasing one of the "K&D Inverto" type of sets that allow punches as well as stumps to be fitted into the base of the unit. The makes it a bit more versatile. I have a Boley set that has an additional base to give the extra height required to allow the use of punches in this way.

I suggest you read this thread Jim, as there is a punch specially designed fir removing balance staffs.

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/2192-first-balance-staff-replacement/page-1#entry22125

Clockboy owns one and has used it, so hopefully he can pitch in with some advice.

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Jim you might need a roller removal tool as well.

 

Any suggestions?

 

I'm watching a Platax on eBay at the moment but hope that there are cheaper options.

 

And the staking set is on the way, should be here this week!

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That's great that you've ordered a staking set.

Hears a roller removal tool that won't break the bank http://www.ebay.com/itm/Balance-staff-roller-remover-jewelled-lever-tool-repair-replace-watch-tool-/301584850911?hash=item4637db9fdf:g:1vkAAOSwBLlVIOvz

You could always use two single sided razor blades and a screwdriver. The Platax is a great machine, especially for breaking the swaged ring that holds the staff to the balance wheel.

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Any suggestions?

 

I'm watching a Platax on eBay at the moment but hope that there are cheaper options.

 

And the staking set is on the way, should be here this week!

The platex tool is no longer manufactured so make sure it is in good condition as parts are not available 

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Well the staking set has arrived. All complete with a full set of stakes and stumps. After a clean of everything I'm checking the stakes for serviceability and mushrooms (unchecked in tin on the right).

 

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Some of the stakes have obviously been hit with a 3 lb ball peen, I'm in the process of removing the mushrooms and checking for straightness as well as tip condition. Example of mushrooms and one I repaired.

 

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There were a couple like this one that had been hit so hard it bent! And the attempt to straighten it in a vice without protective jaws didn't do it any favours. I'll have it in top nick soon enough though.

 

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The head unit was seized solid with old oil and gunk. A soaking in WD40 and a trip through the ultrasonic freed everything up though. After a full strip and another clean and oil it's functioning beautifully. The anvil has no play and centres perfectly and the neck has a great brown patina where the nickel or chrome has been worn off.

 

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So now to keep an eye out for the other items I'll need. In the meantime I'm honing my skills on the lathe by cutting out staff rivets.

 

Onwards we go.

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The long thing is actually quite useful. It's used for removing the punches when there in the case and you can't get at them with your fingers. Then I've attached a link to the PDF manual for K in D staking set give you an idea of what some of the things are for. Plus a whole bunch of stuff you've probably never seen possibly. The round things shows up on page 15.

 

http://cholla.mmto.org/watches/repair/manuals/KD_staking_tools.pdf

 

Then stumble across a website with more K&d staking set stuff

 

http://kanddinverto.weebly.com/

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, now that I have my new staff and the tools I need, I started the process after watching a few very good videos (thanks Mark).

 

In my previous life, I had occasion to defuse or neutralise various "devices". During my early training we had to react to various scenarios and I remember on the first couple that my heart was going like a trip hammer and I hardly breathed in case i made a wrong move.

On completion I mentioned this to my instructor (a crusty old vet who'd served with the Brits in Northern Ireland). His advice was typically Aussie. "Don't think about it son, it's just like pickin' your nose". After that I was as some say, as cool as a cucumber.

 

Until today!

 

Preparing to remove the hairspring and collet from the balance bought up that sense of "stuff this up and it's all over". It was then that I sat back, took a few moments and then gathered up my hand lifters and went to work. Ever so gently I manipulated the tips under the hairspring and engaged the bottom of the collet. I think I was still holding my breath as I lifted the collet and then let out a big sigh as I saw the assembly come free from the balance in one piece.

 

After that, removing the roller table was approached with much more confidence, and that reminded me of those events so many years ago.

 

So here are pics of the latest stages in replacing the broken balance staff of my Caliber 161.

 

Hairspring and collet removed. See, camera isn't even shaking :-)

 

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After that, removal of the roller table was much less stressful.

 

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Now the only hurdle to overcome is removing the broken staff.

 

But that's for another time.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, the balance staff replacement went well. I trimmed down the rivet on my lathe, popped it into the staking machine and used a blocked stake to punch out the staff.

 

I cleaned the balance a bit and then put the new staff into a slack fit hole on the anvil and then used the dome and flat stakes to set the staff.

A quick check on the poising table showed it was pretty OK so back to the staking set and seated the roller table and the hairspring.

 

I now have a watch running at +2 Secs/day, amplitude about 320 or so but a beat error that started at 9.1ms!

 

I've now got that down to 2.6ms but that's too much for me so tomorrow back to the repetitious task of loosen the balance stud, remove the cock, remove the balance onto a soft wood block, tweak the hairspring collet, install onto the cock and nip up the stud and back on the plate.

 

It's an arduous process and that little stud screw is a real little s***of a thing but Im determined to get it as close as I can so back to it tomorrow.

 

I wish the Timegrapher would tell you which darn direction to turn the collet, I guess it's just tweak, check, tweak again, check for increase or decrease and then just TINY TINY tweaks.

 

Although I eyballed the balance on a bare plate and could see the roller jewel dead centre in the pins it is still out so it may be a factor of the hairspring. Anyway, I've had enough so before I crack the ***** with it I'm off for a Guinness.

 

A BIG thanks to Mark for the excellent videos that helped me immensely in the execution of this part of the work.

 

More to come.

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Jim  I sympathise with your frustration re-knowing it is out of beat but not knowing which way to move the collet.  I noticed on your strip down pics there is a tiny pop mark on the balance rim & I expect that is the starting point for the hairspring end stud. If when you assembled you used this but still way out of beat perhaps the roller table is not quite in the correct position. 

 

As far as beat error goes 2.6ms is not ideal but it will run. I serviced a Rotary approx. a month ago for a friend and the only beat adjustment was by moving the collet and the closet I got it was 1.2ms. However the watch keeps excellent time & my friend has been wearing it since with no issues & is very pleased with the end result.

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Good point CB, I'll have a look at the roller table position again tomorrow and start from scratch.

 

I've made a platform from 30mmx15mm pine with a hole for the roller table and two small pins to stop the balance cock turning when I nip up the stud screw so it's becoming a repetitive process for me now.

 

Onward, onward..........

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