My first adventures in swiss watches. My gramp's old eta 2451 probably from the late 1950's

[Birbdad]

The watch that at the same got me back into watches that i never have worn. Belonged to my late grandfather who was a **BLEEP** so it had no sentimental value to me. When i got it my mom got it "professionally serviced" (Stay tuned for more on that lol.) and gave it to me. It's gold, very grandpa looking and sat in a drawer for 20 years while i bought a bunch of seikos i actually wanted to wear. Then I saw a pic of a similar gold watch on a blue strap and it looked quite attractive. I got one. 

Yup. I can wear this! Ariston was the department store brand of an old Chicago department store. Was probably a nice watch at the time but not TOO nice. Let's get it serviced!


Open it up and it's far prettier than any example of this old movement i can find on the web. Looks to be in great shape too! But is it? (Yes.)

Oof. Professionally serviced and there's no crown or caseback gasket in it?! Thank god i didn't wear it. I'd probably have gotten it wet and had no idea it wasn't water resistant anymore like the caseback says. Also bent crown post. Probably have to source a crown but i'm hoping i can take the stem out and just bend/nudge it back straight. Does't look like it would be too hard. Worth a shot if i have to replace it anyways.

Turned the thing over to drop it out of the case and a bunch of dark powder and some shards of metal fell out...not good. Took automatic works off...so far so good. 

70 years and the balance is utterly perfect best i can tell. Thank god.

Zero excessive arbor sideshake. It all looks great, no rust.

Why is there a swimming pool of grease under the pallet fork cock all around the keyless works?! SO much grease! The jewel and escapement oiling appears to be impeccable. Did he drop a pizza on this thing halfway through assembly?!
 

Disassembly is done other than the barrel. Real happy to say there's not a speck of rust, not a single slipmark from tweezers or screwdrivers, mine or otherwise. THis movement appears to be in mint condition. I'm not sure what that debris was that fell out of it, all the oil is still wet, there's no rust. I suspect it was gilding or some corrosion from the brass that wears through the thick gold filling of the case. I have no idea what that was. Beautifully taken care of. What a relief. I dont' want to cock this up or have any surprises as i know it was running just fine a couple years ago despite being serviced 18 years prior.  

So thoughts on swiss vs seiko, seiko being all iv'e worked on. I love the little quality of life stuff with swiss. the tapered or post bottomed screws that sit perfectly upright and wait to be screwed in, zero chance of a screwdriver slip. The little notches for levering up all the bridges and cocks is really convenient. I'm really enjoying working on it. I do like the simplicity of seiko stuff. Way less parts it feels like and things work more intuitively. The sideways sliding crown wheel is a really interesting design. Given that i can't find ANY technical sheet or diagram and only two awful youtube vids of partial disassemblies, hopefully i can get this thing back together and oiled up and running tomorrow. 

 

 

[Nucejoe]

Try these, 

https://www.emmywatch.com/db/movement/eta--2451/

 

Downloadable.

https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/files?subdir=ETA&dir=Technical Manuals&action=documents

 

Rgds

 

 

[Birbdad]

12 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Try these, 

https://www.emmywatch.com/db/movement/eta--2451/

 

Downloadable.

https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/files?subdir=ETA&dir=Technical Manuals&action=documents

 

Rgds

 

 

Thanks for that. I just really wish i could find a decent video of assembly and disassembly but there just doesn't seem to be one out there. I found two on youtube that are not good or very clear. Most of this is pretty intuitive but the keyless and motion works and click spring seem to have changed design from the more modern evolutions of this movement like the 2824. 

In fact i didn't even get a chance to see how the click spring assembly even sits as the moment i removed that screw the hidden spring popped the whole thing up. Thank god i didn't lose it. 

[Birbdad]

Okay as somebody totally unfamiliar with old swiss stuff does this look normal to you guys? So theoretically this thing was serviced by a professional of dubious qualifications 20 years ago, sat in a drawer ever since and so I figured the barrel should be serviced and the new mainspring i would hope he'd have put in there would probably be usable (I have a new one anyways ready to go.) but i'm not really sure what i'm looking at here. 

There's no bridle to speak of on the mainspring, it's just folded over at the end. 

Inside the barrel is a second part. I've never seen anything like this but that folded over part clearly hooks onto it.  I have a brand new GR mainspring for this movement ready to go if i have to replace the mainspring. Is this an integral part or is this something strange the previous watchmaker did? It looks like the bridle is just a separate part of the spring itself. If the new one i have has it's own bridle i'm wondering if i even need this part.



 

Edited September 10 by Birbdad

[nickelsilver]

That's the old way the slipping bridle was done, as a separate piece, using a standard spring. If you get a spring with integral bridle you don't use this one.

[Nucejoe]

 Attached slipping bridles can break as you remove or install the spring manually, a pain one doesn't have with detached slipping bridle. 

I always go with detached bridles, is there any technical down fall to using detached slipping bridle?  

I think the spirit of WRT likes us to do collective walkthroughs. As usual , Richharris  will be  standing by to hide useless posts or such parts of a post,wont you rich?

Can we  as a team work with you BIRBDAD to put your watch back together , please. 

Rgds

[Birbdad]

43 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 Attached slipping bridles can break as you remove or install the spring manually, a pain one doesn't have with detached slipping bridle. 

I always go with detached bridles, is there any technical down fall to using detached slipping bridle?  

I think the spirit of WRT likes us to do collective walkthroughs. As usual , Richharris  will be  standing by to hide useless posts or such parts of a post,wont you rich?

Can we  as a team work with you BIRBDAD to put your watch back together , please. 

Rgds

Appreciate the vote of confidence haha. I post here and another place to absorb little tips and knowledge from people who know more than me so yeah feel free to chime in, I do appreciate it. If i'm about to step into a minefield i want to know beforehand. There's a few quirks of this watch people elsewhere warned me about when i started it and they would have caused some problems so I do appreciate people supervising.
As for the mainspring I actually purchased a new correct General resortes mainspring and installed it and it was the single piece construction with the attached bridle. I"m not even sure if this old one is correct as it was INCREDIBLY short compared to this replacement. 

But yeah i didn't get much done today so you can just see where i am. 
Got everything nice and clean. 

 

Serviced the barrel wall with a ring of 2813 and got the new mainspring installed. According to GR and every database the correct mainspring is the GR 3271X
By sheer luck I had the correct winder and arbor for this which is a right hand #6 despite the fact i've never worked on a right hand mainspring'd watch. Yet another thing that has been so nice working on swiss is that since their mainsprings aren't so damn short, it was actually the same height as the wall of the winder, and it made getting the arbor out without it unraveling a breeze compared to seiko. 

 

Got the barrel serviced.

 

I'm ordering a new crown and caseback gasket. I didn't think there was a caseback gasket on this thing but there actually is, it just was so glued to the caseback and appears to either be white plastic that blended in with the steel or is so old it's turned light grey and into plastic. Iv'e never seen a gasket like this before. I"m assuming a normal rubber one will work.

But that's where I am. Probably can't touch it again till saturday. Feel free to chime in @Nucejoe

 

[Nucejoe]

 A PRE-CLEAN is always helpful, I dispower the movement through the click ,  remove the balance complete, cock and  fork, wind the gear train and immediately drop it in cleaning solution, gears would turn slow in fluids, if you enjoyed watching this, repeat. Check how free the train turns, gives you an idea of the health of movement's gear train.

 Fork pallets and impulse jewel are shellaced in place, shellac can be lost in ultrasonic bath, especially in cleaning solutions that contain petrolium product or even hot water, as you  already have given all parts a bath in ultrasonic,  first thing I do is to check if enough shellac is left to keep the said jewels in place, both best not be put in ultrasonic but cleaned by hand. 

Check  pallets face under high magnification, anything less than shining face is unacceptable, jewel holes must be visually checked to make sure they r not chipped , cracked, ,,,, etc.

I peg pallets with tooth picks. 

Peg jewel holes with food pegwood.

 I think  one can't over clean hairspring, usually let the whole balance complete with cock attached in bottle partially filled with lighter fluid, for hours, cock down ,  balance up and impulse jewel above the fluid level so to avoid losing shellac thats on impulse jewel  , swirl the bottle every ten  minutes or so,  be careful to keep impulse jewel higher than the fluid level, so to avoid  exposing the shellac  to the fluid too long. On the other hand one can't rely on ultrasonic to clean and peg jewels in balance setting, cap stones must come out ,checked and pegged,, drop the  cap stone on a flat  thick hard cardboard, flat side facing the cardboard, put your finger on cap stone, pour some lighter fluid on the card board, rub the stone on cardboard, you can push down on capstone as hard as you like, this pegs the cap stone , then drop it in lighter fluid , shake a little and fish it out with your finger or a clean tea spoon, this washes away any paper debrie aggregated around the cap stone.

 Unless balance complete is seperated from the cock, you wont have a good view of pivot on cock side, which might be bent , worn , short,,,, etc.

Clean the fork horns and guard pin and in between  spic span with a soft brush and lighter fluid.

Check all gears, ,pivots and pinion leaves, jewels on main plate and bridges and their shakes.

Put the cock and balance complete back on mainplate and observe how freely it turns, with a puff of air balance should keep oscillating  for 30 seconds, twenty would do, check balance pivots end and side shakes.

Impulse jewel is easy to peg .

Check each escape teeth , pivot cone with microscope. 

You can then claim you have done some cleaning, pegging  and checking.

This beats having to go back , another year down, and wonder why your tg signals something is wrong.

Keep us posted with progress on your project.

Good luck.

Edited September 10 by Nucejoe
Typo

[Birbdad]

On 9/10/2024 at 1:28 PM, Nucejoe said:

 A PRE-CLEAN is always helpful, I dispower the movement through the click ,  remove the balance complete, cock and  fork, wind the gear train and immediately drop it in cleaning solution, gears would turn slow in fluids, if you enjoyed watching this, repeat. Check how free the train turns, gives you an idea of the health of movement's gear train.

 Fork pallets and impulse jewel are shellaced in place, shellac can be lost in ultrasonic bath, especially in cleaning solutions that contain petrolium product or even hot water, as you  already have given all parts a bath in ultrasonic,  first thing I do is to check if enough shellac is left to keep the said jewels in place, both best not be put in ultrasonic but cleaned by hand. 

Check  pallets face under high magnification, anything less than shining face is unacceptable, jewel holes must be visually checked to make sure they r not chipped , cracked, ,,,, etc.

I peg pallets with tooth picks. 

Peg jewel holes with food pegwood.

 I think  one can't over clean hairspring, usually let the whole balance complete with cock attached in bottle partially filled with lighter fluid, for hours, cock down ,  balance up and impulse jewel above the fluid level so to avoid losing shellac thats on impulse jewel  , swirl the bottle every ten  minutes or so,  be careful to keep impulse jewel higher than the fluid level, so to avoid  exposing the shellac  to the fluid too long. On the other hand one can't rely on ultrasonic to clean and peg jewels in balance setting, cap stones must come out ,checked and pegged,, drop the  cap stone on a flat  thick hard cardboard, flat side facing the cardboard, put your finger on cap stone, pour some lighter fluid on the card board, rub the stone on cardboard, you can push down on capstone as hard as you like, this pegs the cap stone , then drop it in lighter fluid , shake a little and fish it out with your finger or a clean tea spoon, this washes away any paper debrie aggregated around the cap stone.

 Unless balance complete is seperated from the cock, you wont have a good view of pivot on cock side, which might be bent , worn , short,,,, etc.

Clean the fork horns and guard pin and in between  spic span with a soft brush and lighter fluid.

Check all gears, ,pivots and pinion leaves, jewels on main plate and bridges and their shakes.

Put the cock and balance complete back on mainplate and observe how freely it turns, with a puff of air balance should keep oscillating  for 30 seconds, twenty would do, check balance pivots end and side shakes.

Impulse jewel is easy to peg .

Check each escape teeth , pivot cone with microscope. 

You can then claim you have done some cleaning, pegging  and checking.

This beats having to go back , another year down, and wonder why your tg signals something is wrong.

Keep us posted with progress on your project.

Good luck.

This is basically my routine. I don't think i'm as new at all this as you think. I still don't know what's going on with that other movement but i've successfully serviced 12 watches that run great and then there's that one. 12 hits and one miss. 

I precleaned everything with a brush and naphtha, cleaned the balance in my essence jar of naphtha then a quick rinse, pegged out everything dried it all in a food dehydrator to prevent rust. Inspected everything  

But anyways since i can't find any sort of real tutorial for this i'll post what i'm doing so feel free to jump in. 



Got the train in place. I'm partially going off the tech sheet for a 2892 since there is none for the 2451. Since i'm thrilled i can just oil the wheels from the outside all i did was put a dab of 9010 on the rib on the seconds hand post and on the raised metal border it goes into where it says in the 2892 tech sheet. That might be jeweled on a 2892 but it's not on this but i put a little dot of 9010 anyways. 

Eeesh i HATE this train bridge design. I haven't had this much trouble getting a train bridge aligned since the first time i opened a watch. On my seikos i just lay the bridge on, give the movement holder a little tap and it all falls into place. This took me awhile for some reason but it's on and the train spins freely.



I've never encountered a system like this, that little piece next to the barrel slides over the bridge which is such a weird design to me. I was told put a couple dabs of hp1300 on the polished bottom surface of it and one on the post. 

I'm not entirely sure of all the lubrication points for some of this so i'm basically just going on instinct for some of the sliding parts of the keyless works and the winding system. Outside of that the rest is pretty standard.

This assembly popped out the moment i removed the screw in disassembly so i'm assuming both ends of that spring go to the left of the post  to push it to the right. Given that that spring is sliding across the mainplate i'm assuming a little grease would be called for?

[Birbdad]

Went and put a tiny sheen of grease under that spring slide area and got the assembly put together how i assumed it should go and it works. I used a dab of molykote where the spring end slides across the mainplate and a dab of 1300 on the post for the click spring.

Still a little weirded out by The wheel sliding over the bridge like that, where to oil it. I was told to use hp1300 and basically follow the oiling recommendation of the 2824 and use hp1300 on the edges and the rim of the raised portion of the barrel bridge above that the crown wheel slides across and the flat portion.


Just cuz it made sense i also used a little molykote on the inside of the rim of the crown wheel which will slide across that flat cutout where it interfaces with the crown wheel cam.

So i got the crown wheel on which was very finnicky. Apparently you have to have the stem in and the stem components at least of the keyless works in otherwise the crown wheel cam will not stay engaged with the post on the underside of the barrel bridge it swivels in. 


Then the ratchet wheel goes on but not before oiling the arbor pivots from the edge with some hp1300. Interesting little system here for the hand winding!

I let the escape wheel scratch a little groove in my epilam and then oiled the escapement with 9415. At first i had to do a double take because the pallet fork engages with the escape wheel at the bottom of the pallet jewel, it's very odd and makes it very hard to oil the escapement directly on the jewel as it barely catches any of the oil so I ended up oiling the teeth themselves and just distributing it around. 



I did notice this earlier but forgot to ask about it. I love how the train jewels are designed to be oiled from the outside unlike the seikos i'm used to working on, so fast and easy! All of them are those indented reservoir jewels but the dial side escape wheel jewel. I oiled it just like the others but i'm wondering if that's not the correct method, it almost looks like you're supposed to oil the pivot itself instead of the jewel but it did suck the oil down without making a mess. 


Getting the balance in these is SO fiddly due to the post on the balance cock and the raised rim around the hole for the lower pivot. Very annoying! But i got it in and it started right up.  I'm a bit concerned just HOW tight the winding tension is. REAL tight but i eventually felt the bridle slip so I think it's fine. Even at no wind it's about as tight as the seikos i work on at full wind. Odd.



Other than having to figure out how to get the crown wheel cam in correctly and the fiddlyness of the balance and train wheels this was a joy to work on so far. 

Now the best part of working on a watch, letting it run all night while i have a beer and play Elden Ring. I'll put it on the timegrapher when i get up and if it's running healthy do the motion and keyless works and get it on my wrist.

Edited September 15 by Birbdad

[JohnR725]

On 9/9/2024 at 4:34 AM, Birbdad said:

Professionally serviced and there's no crown or caseback gasket in it?! Thank god i didn't wear it. I'd probably have gotten it wet and had no idea it wasn't water resistant anymore like the caseback says.

one of my amusements where I work is we change batteries. If the watch indicates any form of water resistance the price goes up. Then a course anything with an expensive name in other words for liability reasons the price goes up. Everything that indicates water resistance is placed in one of the dry testers to verify incoming watches actually are still water resistant. If they're not the customers notified and as part of the battery change if they can change the gasket or lubricate the crown whatever they will attempt to restore it back to water resistance. and yes they spend a fair amount of time restoring watches back to be in water resistant. But a lot of customers or some customers object the price and could care less that whoever else changes the battery probably isn't going to care if their watches water resistant or not because what's the likelihood you're going to wash your hands or get your watch exposed to water etc. Then unfortunately a lot of watch repair shops don't have the capability of checking watches as to whether they're still water resistant or not that was not part of the original service.

Then service bulletins? the unfortunate reality is there only typically scanned for the parts. Material houses needed to build identify the parts they did not need to know how to service the watch. So for instance searching this computer we get a parts list which I'm attaching. But when I look at the parts list I do have to wonder if there was servicing for this watch just never got scanned?

 

 

1043_ETA 2450, 2451, 2453.pdf

[Birbdad]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

one of my amusements where I work is we change batteries. If the watch indicates any form of water resistance the price goes up. Then a course anything with an expensive name in other words for liability reasons the price goes up. Everything that indicates water resistance is placed in one of the dry testers to verify incoming watches actually are still water resistant. If they're not the customers notified and as part of the battery change if they can change the gasket or lubricate the crown whatever they will attempt to restore it back to water resistance. and yes they spend a fair amount of time restoring watches back to be in water resistant. But a lot of customers or some customers object the price and could care less that whoever else changes the battery probably isn't going to care if their watches water resistant or not because what's the likelihood you're going to wash your hands or get your watch exposed to water etc. Then unfortunately a lot of watch repair shops don't have the capability of checking watches as to whether they're still water resistant or not that was not part of the original service.

Then service bulletins? the unfortunate reality is there only typically scanned for the parts. Material houses needed to build identify the parts they did not need to know how to service the watch. So for instance searching this computer we get a parts list which I'm attaching. But when I look at the parts list I do have to wonder if there was servicing for this watch just never got scanned?

 

 

1043_ETA 2450, 2451, 2453.pdf 2.36 MB · 1 download

Well i did manage to find some gaskets for it, i had to get a gasket that's technically too small for the case back and i had to look EVERYWHERE for a waterproof crown that was even close to the original. I wonder if the guy just had nothing on hand that would fit this weird case and gave up.

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, Birbdad said:

had nothing on hand that would fit this weird case and gave up

if I think back in my early days of working in a variety of watch shops to be quite honest I don't ever remember being concerned about watches being water resistant. because the only way we had for testing that sort of thing was the water tester and I just don't ever remember using it at all. Nowadays with those dry testers it's so easy to check the watch five is dry testers are really expensive so how many people would have one of them anyway?

So I suspect in the past a lot of people probably didn't worry about it or didn't worry very much at all. But a bag could be wrong about that

 

 

 

oh and if you're curious about modern testing I'm attaching a PDF.

8642_WI_22_Ewater resistance testing cousins.pdf

[Razz]

I thought I read on the 2824 and others you want to have the stem in the setting position when taking out or putting back in or the support is not there and the lever gets knocked out of the groove in the clutch. Maybe the same on this one? Something is not correct if it is a tight wind...

[Birbdad]

4 hours ago, Razz said:

I thought I read on the 2824 and others you want to have the stem in the setting position when taking out or putting back in or the support is not there and the lever gets knocked out of the groove in the clutch. Maybe the same on this one? Something is not correct if it is a tight wind...

So i partially did this while watching a 2824 service vid and the guy specifically said you didn't have to have the keyless works in so I dunno. 

On this you definitely have to have the stem parts in!

[Birbdad]

Just sat back down. This is a good start.

I went to adjust the beat error arm only to realize there is no beat error arm
Is this one of those situations where to adjust the beat error i have to move the entire collet? Cuz i do not feel comfortable messing with that haha

I feel like a five position delta of 12 is probably....decent for a 70 year old movement? I would love to know why the bottom line of the timegrapher signal is a little rough in crown up and crown left, nothing too bad, just deviates a bit lik ethe escapement isn't hitting perfect but only in those two positions. 

WHat i'd REALLY like to know is why there's such a big rate deviation in crown down? I'd wager all i can really do about it is try to bend the hairspring so it's recentered betterand i feel like i probably shouldn't touch it. God knows how hard it is to find a new balance for a movement this old.

Would you guys be happy with this on a 70 year old watch?

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Birbdad said:

So i partially did this while watching a 2824 service vid and the guy specifically said you didn't have to have the keyless works in so I dunno. 

On this you definitely have to have the stem parts in!

Problem is with YouTube its full of folk that don't have a clue trying to make some money by spouting bullshit. Applies to every subject imaginable. I enjoy learning from folk that have spent years learning their craft and above that from thinking a process through in my head and any mistakes i make that follow. If there's one person that you really should trust, it's yourself.

[Birbdad]

10 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Problem is with YouTube its full of folk that don't have a clue trying to make some money by spouting bullshit. Applies to every subject imaginable. I enjoy learning from folk that have spent years learning their craft and above that from thinking a process through in my head and any mistakes i make that follow. If there's one person that you really should trust, it's yourself.

I don't just watch random yahoo's on youtube, there's about 3 channels i watch that are all working professionals, educated, certified with decades of experience. 

The eta 2824 vid i referenced was our very own Marks vid haha. 

That said that particular part of the watch is one of the few that's really changed between the 2451 and the 2824. That also said, there's an awful vid where the guy assembles a 2451 without having those parts of the keyless works in. I"m not sure how he did it but i couldn't. 

What do you think of my timegrapher results on a watch this old? I'd wager i could probably improve those two positions of the delta by bending the hairspring at the stud to center it in the regulator pins better but i'm also thinking the chances i screw that up are quite high I have a seiko 7006 i plan to explore that with and i have multiple spare balances for it in case something happens. I do not have spares for this.

I suppose it could also be possibly remedied by adjusting the timing screws in the balance but again i don't think i want to touch those 

Edited September 16 by Birbdad

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Birbdad said:

Just sat back down. This is a good start.

I went to adjust the beat error arm only to realize there is no beat error arm
Is this one of those situations where to adjust the beat error i have to move the entire collet? Cuz i do not feel comfortable messing with that haha

I feel like a five position delta of 12 is probably....decent for a 70 year old movement? I would love to know why the bottom line of the timegrapher signal is a little rough in crown up and crown left, nothing too bad, just deviates a bit lik ethe escapement isn't hitting perfect but only in those two positions. 

WHat i'd REALLY like to know is why there's such a big rate deviation in crown down? I'd wager all i can really do about it is try to bend the hairspring so it's recentered betterand i feel like i probably shouldn't touch it. God knows how hard it is to find a new balance for a movement this old.

Would you guys be happy with this on a 70 year old watch?

High deviation rate in opposing vertical positions indicate a poise error Col. A clue to this would be adjusting your amp closer to 220° and watching the delta for those 2 positions diminish.  Or adjust position around those 2 verticals and see the rates move.

4 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

don't just watch random yahoo's on youtube, there's about 3 channels i watch that are all working professionals, educated, certified with decades of experience. 

There are professionals and then there professionals, i trust very few on youtube to be genuine, goes without saying that of course i trust Mark

[Birbdad]

20 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

High deviation rate in opposing vertical positions indicate a poise error Col. A clue to this would be adjusting your amp closer to 220° and watching the delta for those 2 positions diminish.  Or adjust position around those 2 verticals and see the rates move.

There are professionals and then there professionals, i trust very few on youtube to be genuine, goes without saying that of course i trust Mark

These guys are professionals i can assure you. They're not unknown people in the space. 

And i was thinking it could be a poise issue that would probably be corrected by adjusting the screws on the balance. I'm not touching em. This should keep decent time on the wrist. 

Anyways. IF anybody's reading this and working on this. If you think you got that U shaped spring retained, be really careful. I definitely lost it, Pinged about six feet away when i was sure it couldn't possibly go anywhere. Thank god for my magnetic tool holder rod, found it real fast. 



Weird very fiddly construction with the setting lever. you have to screw it in from the backside. I'm sure there's a better way to do it than what i did which was just luck. I had to hold the movement sideways and get the screw to just the right depth and through trial and error i got it to finally thread without pushing the setting lever out of place. You gotta do this before putting the setting lever spring in. 

 

[Birbdad]

Bleh, warning. The screw that goes into that annoying setting lever goes UNDER the barrel bridge. It didn't look like there was room for it so i assumed it went on top of it, which actually worked but then i was confused why i couldn't get the stem out. I unscrewed it a little too much and lost the setting lever.

Annoying design but i do appreciate having a separate bridge for the barrel as i didn't compromise my oiling on the rest of the train like i would have with a seiko when i had to remove the bridge barrel to get to the setting lever. 

Putting together the automatic works. I got no frame of reference for lubrication so just using my head. Doing the center posts with hp1300 and a tiny dot of molykote on the areas where i can clearly see the wheels make contact with other metal parts. 

So i had no idea what to do with the reverer wheels. PUt a little hp1300 on the posts they go around. After doing a little research there's a special lube for them called lubeta, which was surprisingly cheap so i ordered some but i want to wear the thing now.

Apparently this is the lubrication point if you don't use lubeta. So i hit it with a tiny bit of 9010 and when the other stuff arrives ill clean and use that.


Now, gonna put the dial and hands on and get it back together and get it on the wrist finally!

 

Aand pretty much done. I"ll shorten the stem tomorrow. I'm assuming stems for these are still readily available cuz this was the closest to a crown match i could get and it's clearly too long. 

 

Edited September 16 by Birbdad

[Birbdad]

But quite a different experience having only worked on japanese watches, mostly a more positive experience. 
I really do appreciate all the little things that make it feel like it was designed with the watchmakers who'd service it in mind. I really appreciate being able to oil everything from the outside, no train shock settings, the incabloc is SUCH a more convenient system than the diafix. 

I found aligning the balance cock and some of the bridges really annoying with the pegs that are real tight to slot into the mainplate. Getting the balance cock on was definitely a bit of a struggle. I really did appreciate how few surprises there were. This thing just works. Nothing really unexpected happened as can happen with seikos, usually hairspring related where you can just breathe on them practically and there's suddenly a twist or a bend you have to fix. 

Eventually i'm gonna get some swiss junker i don't mind destroying and learn how to fix the beat error with the collet and look into how to fix the poise error but for now i'm happy to let it run as is.

Edited September 16 by Birbdad

[mbwatch]

27 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

Eventually i'm gonna get some swiss junker i don't mind destroying

Maybe look for something with an AS 1187 - usually $20-$30 on ebay and there are loads of spares. A lot of military style watches from the 1950's will have that movement. They work super well and fit together very well, plus you will have to adjust the collet and they still have balance screws to practice poising. (or try any pre-1950 pocket watch)

[Birbdad]

4 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

Maybe look for something with an AS 1187 - usually $20-$30 on ebay and there are loads of spares. A lot of military style watches from the 1950's will have that movement. They work super well and fit together very well, plus you will have to adjust the collet and they still have balance screws to practice poising. (or try any pre-1950 pocket watch)

Okay i'll keep an eye out for them when the time comes. Thanks!

Edited September 16 by Birbdad

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, mbwatch said:

Maybe look for something with an AS 1187 - usually $20-$30 on ebay and there are loads of spares. A lot of military style watches from the 1950's will have that movement. They work super well and fit together very well, plus you will have to adjust the collet and they still have balance screws to practice poising. (or try any pre-1950 pocket watch)

Enicar and rotary army watches used this movement also 50's accurist and avia.