Movement acting funny

[apandersP]

Hello. I’m very new to watch making, did another post where I asked for issues with a cheap not working vintage watch from eBay, but still need to get the watch. Still on its way.

I bought another watch, that seller told me was working correctly. I tried to test it, with leaving it on the bench for a night, and the next morning it was ten minutes faster than the watch on my iPhone. 
 

I also went online and bought some tools so I can start slowly learning this amazing hobby.

I tried to adjust the watch my self. That’s not an easy task without a timegrapher, but I managed to make it so it’s now a minute or two slow in 8 hours, which is still a lot but also a lot better than before. 
 

I winded the watch up, and leaved it over night. When I woke up, it was stopped five hours after I left it. When I took the watch up in my hand, it started running again, so it seems like it’s just needed a bit of psychical movement to get going again, which I think is strange since it’s a manual winding watch. 

Could the watch me magnetized? I’m gonna go buy a compass as soon as the stores open up, so I can test that. I already ordered a demagnetizer machine (one that a watch guy on YouTube really recommended, and not the cheapest of the cheapest) 

I think I will order a timegrapher, since they are not that expensive, and come in very handy. 
 

The watch is a Sicura 400 and the movement is EB8021 manual winding (seller told me that) but of photos it looks more like a EB8027. I’ve took some photos and attached them. 
 

The photo with the red circle, is where I tried to adjust the speed of the movement. 

[RichardHarris123]

It could be magnetised but definitely needs a service.  A watch needs to be running well before regulation. 

[clockboy]

Agree with Richard regulation without a service is not good practice..   Pin lever watch’s are a bit rugged and not in the league of a jewelled Swiss movement. However when considering  their low cost once serviced and regulated they are good reliable runners and great value.

Edited August 9 by clockboy

[apandersP]

Thanks for the answers both of you. I appreciate it. I think a service on a watch is way to complicated for me to do… I think the best for me, is to wait to get the non working watch and try to practice on that one… I’m not confident enough to start taking this movement apart, all though the movement looks more simple that other movement I’ve seen. 

[AndyGSi]

I'm looking at an EB 8021 this weekend that a friend serviced but since then it stick on every date change.

[VWatchie]

6 hours ago, apandersP said:

Could the watch me magnetized? I’m gonna go buy a compass as soon as the stores open up, so I can test that.

Yes, it's likely magnetized. A better and less expensive option is to download a metal detector app to your smartphone. There are many of those apps to select from so I can't recommend anyone in particular.

6 hours ago, apandersP said:

I think I will order a timegrapher, since they are not that expensive, and come in very handy. 

Two popular timing machines are the Weishi 1000 and the Weishi 1900. I recommend the Weishi 1900 as it has a gain setting whereby you can adjust its sensitivity which sometimes needs to be increased and sometimes decreased.

Also, when new, get yourself a watch that runs well. Then practice disassembling and reassembling several times until you've built some confidence. Then practice disassembling, cleaning, and oiling while assembling. This way you know if you've introduced some errors or not. I recommend a larger movement like an ETA/Unitas 6497 or an ETA/Unitas 6498, or a clone like the Chinese Seagull TY3600 which has Incabloc-like anti-shock springs which are a bit easier to handle when you're learning! Once finished practicing you can build your own watch using this movement. eBay is full of options for cases, dials, and hands.

6 hours ago, apandersP said:

I also went online and bought some tools so I can start slowly learning this amazing hobby.

I've been an enthusiast for seven or eight years now and watches are by far one of the most intriguing and amazing machines I've come across after walking the planet Earth for 62 years.

Good luck!

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, apandersP said:

Could the watch me magnetized? I’m gonna go buy a compass as soon as the stores open up, so I can test that. I already ordered a demagnetizer machine (one that a watch guy on YouTube really recommended, and

You need a different compass for this , not a navigational compass. a plotting compass, if memory serves the poles of the needle are reversed but dont quote me on that points south ?, they are used to detect magnetic fields and map them .

Edited August 9 by Neverenoughwatches

[Nucejoe]

 Says 23 jewels,  isn't  pallets on EB8021 jeweled 

A top view close up of the hairspring coil ++ plus a side view of the coil, or  A vid of oscilator running helps diag.

Practicing starts with lifting & replace the cock with balance attached. Thats where we all have bad memories from.  

I put one of these together out of scrap parts of many movement all in a box,  but a new balance complete, its accuracy exceeds expectation, almost COSC qualified.

Rgds

 

 

 

 

 

 

[apandersP]

2 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Two popular timing machines are the Weishi 1000 and the Weishi 1900. I recommend the Weishi 1900 as it has a gain setting whereby you can adjust its sensitivity which sometimes needs to be increased and sometimes decreased.

Also, when new, get yourself a watch that runs well. Then practice disassembling and reassembling several times until you've built some confidence. Then practice disassembling, cleaning, and oiling while assembling. This way you know if you've introduced some errors or not. I recommend a larger movement like an ETA/Unitas 6497 or an ETA/Unitas 6498, or a clone like the Chinese Seagull TY3600 which has Incabloc-like anti-shock springs which are a bit easier to handle when you're learning! Once finished practicing you can build your own watch using this movement. eBay is full of options for cases, dials, and hands.

I've been an enthusiast for seven or eight years now and watches are by far one of the most intriguing and amazing machines I've come across after walking the planet Earth for 62 years.

Good luck!

Thanks a lot! 
I’ve got watches that works, but I don’t gonna take them apart it’s an omega dynamic chronograph that I used all my salary on, when I was 18. And the other is a Seiko SKX007 that I got. But I was thinking about getting a working manual pocket watch too practice on, because they are bigger and easier. 
 

it’s that two timegraphers I’m looking for, I can’t really see how I should be able to work on watches without knowing how the run before and after. 

[RichardHarris123]

You only need one timegrapher.  Before you buy one, you can time the watch against the clock on your phone, note the result, service and time again  

[apandersP]

2 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

 Says 23 jewels,  isn't  pallets on EB8021 jeweled 

A top view close up of the hairspring coil ++ plus a side view of the coil, or  A vid of oscilator running helps diag.

Practicing starts with lifting & replace the cock with balance attached. Thats where we all have bad memories from.  

I put one of these together out of scrap parts of many movement all in a box,  but a new balance complete, its accuracy exceeds expectation, almost COSC qualified.

Rgds

 

 

 

 

 

Can you use this video for anything?

 

Otherwise I can make more precise videos or photos? 

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, apandersP said:

Can you use this video for anything?

 Vids wont open in my country. Lucky you will receive good advice from other members. 

No worries as inexpensive used EB parts can still be found, though doesn't look you will any. 

Stick around and you'll soon be rebuilding movements.

Rgds

 

 

 

[apandersP]

40 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 Vids wont open in my country. Lucky you will receive good advice from other members. 

No worries as inexpensive used EB parts can still be found, though doesn't look you will any. 

Stick around and you'll soon be rebuilding movements.

Rgds

 

 

 

I will! Looking forward to get started for real. It’s just expensive all the equipment, and I love tools, so this is perfect haha. I’m correctly studying body work, so I restore and fix rust on old cars. 
 

The most confusion is all the oils and stuff needed. Which where and all that, but I will be reading and watching a lot of videos. 
 

Do you by any chance know of some kind of guidance on how to clean watch parts without expensive watch part cleaners? 
 

I think I’m gonna be okay at remembering where everything is going due to my work, where I also take things apart and put it back together, just in a bigger scale. 

[RichardHarris123]

Cleaning and lubrication are the proverbial can of works. Some things are definitely black and white and some things are a  grey area. 

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, apandersP said:

Do you by any chance know of some kind of guidance on how to clean watch parts without expensive watch part cleaners? 

 Plenty of discussions on watch cleaning solutions in relevent subforums, at the end it can depend on whats available where you live. Soap and water can often do good for pre-cleans.

 I use avgas thats an isometric petrolium product known as avaiation gas which comes in various  grades and octane. Its cheap, readily available and commonly used for watch cleaning here, but obviously its not the right choice in Europe. A Try Paint thinners   to find one that work for you.

Our good moderator old hippy whom we call OH recommends lighter fluid which is shellac friendly unless in ultrasonic and perhaps in L& R cleaning machines.

I don't recommend buying a timegrapher to starters, as you might come to realize that watch repair isn't your game. You can download apps off the net which will do the job for now.  As you progress and are sure you want to continue working on watches buying a timegrapher is OK. 

The simplest app I have come accross on the net is "watch accuracy meter " your smart phone is all you need to use it, gives you daily rate and beat error. 

 Wishi print outs is a bit advanced and not always conclusively interpertable. So a simple tg would suffice at first stages of learning. Seems Wishi tends to hear tics or toks that weren't meant to be regarded as tics , or I think so.

An ultrasonic machine not neccessarily expensive one, generally makes life easier and  well worth the price you pay.

Buy tools as you feel you must have. Beware the  never ending list of horolog tools kills your wallet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnR725]

13 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

You need a different compass for this , not a navigational compass

I thought all compasses could be used for navigation?

 

7 hours ago, apandersP said:

The most confusion is all the oils and stuff needed. Which where and all that, but I will be reading and watching a lot of videos. 

One of the problems was watching YouTube videos are they have opinions. The more people you watched more opinions you get and soon will become a big confusing mess.

14 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Yes, it's likely magnetized. A better and less expensive option is to download a metal detector app to your smartphone. There are many of those apps to select from so I can't recommend anyone in particular.

The compass method really isn't very good at all. The phone apps are definitely better although the best is to not worry about whether it's magnetized or not and just get a decent demagnetizer And your problem is solved.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

I thought all compasses could be used for navigation?

 I guess they could be once figured out which pole the needle pointed to , but i meant what would be a generally bought northwards pointing compass.

23 hours ago, apandersP said:

Hello. I’m very new to watch making, did another post where I asked for issues with a cheap not working vintage watch from eBay, but still need to get the watch. Still on its way.

I bought another watch, that seller told me was working correctly. I tried to test it, with leaving it on the bench for a night, and the next morning it was ten minutes faster than the watch on my iPhone. 
 

I also went online and bought some tools so I can start slowly learning this amazing hobby.

I tried to adjust the watch my self. That’s not an easy task without a timegrapher, but I managed to make it so it’s now a minute or two slow in 8 hours, which is still a lot but also a lot better than before. 
 

I winded the watch up, and leaved it over night. When I woke up, it was stopped five hours after I left it. When I took the watch up in my hand, it started running again, so it seems like it’s just needed a bit of psychical movement to get going again, which I think is strange since it’s a manual winding watch. 

Could the watch me magnetized? I’m gonna go buy a compass as soon as the stores open up, so I can test that. I already ordered a demagnetizer machine (one that a watch guy on YouTube really recommended, and not the cheapest of the cheapest) 

I think I will order a timegrapher, since they are not that expensive, and come in very handy. 
 

The watch is a Sicura 400 and the movement is EB8021 manual winding (seller told me that) but of photos it looks more like a EB8027. I’ve took some photos and attached them. 
 

The photo with the red circle, is where I tried to adjust the speed of the movement. 

Nice looking sought after watch, fact- Ernest Schneider that inherited Secura after his father died, bought the Breitling name when the company struggled during the quartz crisis. Breitling is still owned by the Schneider family. 

20 hours ago, apandersP said:

Thanks for the answers both of you. I appreciate it. I think a service on a watch is way to complicated for me to do… I think the best for me, is to wait to get the non working watch and try to practice on that one… I’m not confident enough to start taking this movement apart, all though the movement looks more simple that other movement I’ve seen. 

I agree dont make this your first take apart watch, its a good looking watch with some value, start with something under a tenner. If you bugger this one up you'll be upset. Dont ask me how i know

[apandersP]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I agree dont make this your first take apart watch, its a good looking watch with some value, start with something under a tenner. If you bugger this one up you'll be upset. Dont ask me how i know

Exactly! I really like that watch, and bought it as running perfect.. even though I really doesn’t.. so my plan was always to use that one. So I will keep it like this, until I build enough confidence to take it apart. 
 

I bought this one (still waiting for the package) to take apart and try to fix. It’s running but time and date can’t be set (I’ve got another topic for that watch). 
 

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, apandersP said:

I bought this one (still waiting for the package) 
 

Whats  ticking in this one?  Same movement? 

 

[apandersP]

25 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Whats  ticking in this one?  Same movement? 

Actually don’t know. It could be. I will check when it arrives.

Only thing I recognized is that it says shockproof on the dial. As far as I know the eb8021 ia a non shockproof  movement. 

[watchweasol]

Hi Anders as this is your first excursion into the anatomy of a watch I have attached a little technical information/reading for you

TM 9-1575.pdf TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf

[VWatchie]

7 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

The compass method really isn't very good at all. The phone apps are definitely better although the best is to not worry about whether it's magnetized or not and just get a decent demagnetizer And your problem is solved.

Eloquently put John!  I couldn't agree more.

[apandersP]

3 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Anders as this is your first excursion into the anatomy of a watch I have attached a little technical information/reading for you

TM 9-1575.pdf 14.25 MB · 2 downloads TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf 4.2 MB · 1 download

Wow thanks a lot! That’s some serious information there! 

[Nucejoe]

6 hours ago, apandersP said:

Only thing I recognized is that it says shockproof on the dial. As far as I know the eb8021 ia a non shockproof  movement. 

 New version with N designation came with shock protection, kif system I beleive.