Adjusting regulator pins

[Simeon]

I have a Poljot 2628H that I have serviced that I am having some problems regulating. It looks like the hairspring is pinched between the boot and the regulator pin as when I adjust beat error it moves the regulator arm and vice a versa, moving the regulator arm moves the stud carrier.

 

Looking at the pin and boot, they look to be parallel and the rear pin looks to be perpendicular with the arm. Can I adjust this by rotating the boot slightly to open up the gap? The hairspring is a flat type, so presumably needs a small clearance (width of the hairspring again?)

The hairspring appears to be riding right at the bottom of the pins and potentially touching the lip of the boot that bridges the gap. Would it be a good idea to insert the hairspring stud slightly further into the balance cock to raise this section of the hairspring up and off the boot?

 

Unfortunately I can't get a good photograph as it's all so small

[HectorLooi]

I doubt a regulator can pinch a hairspring that tightly. Anyway, the hairspring would've been destroyed when you moved either of them. You can verify this by opening up the regulator boot and try moving the stud carrier and regulator independently. I'm sure they're stuck.

It's a common problem. Sometimes you have to disassemble the regulator assembly to clean and oil it lightly. 

[tomh207]

I agree with @HectorLooi , the interaction you have is between the stud arm and the regulator arm. The hairspring is no way strong enough to influence this action. I have seen this with new seiko movements when I have been building watches and once the beat was good held it in place and then moved the regulator.

 

Tom

[Simeon]

It could be that the stud carrier and regulator arm have stuck together. I will remove the balance complete so I can work them and free them up. Frightened of trying to hold one steady while I move the other with the hairspring installed. 

I can make sure the regulator pins are correctly set as well. 

[Simeon]

So, I removed the balance complete and had a look at the regulator arm and stud carrier. They were definitely stuck together with some visible corrosion. I decided to swap the entire balance cock for another, which seemingly had a decent hairspring.

I now have the beat error down to 0.3ms but the watch is now losing 170 secs a day. The regulator arm is pretty much maxed out on the negative side. The watch was gaining 30 odd seconds on the previous balance (albeit with a bad beat error).

What could be the cause of this? Amplitude is a little low at 255 degrees but I figure this isn't bad for an old Soviet watch on its original mainspring. The hairspring is flat, doesn't look like it is touching anywhere and seems to be 'breathing' equally on both sides. There are no significant kinks in it and the coils look concentric and equally spaced.

What else can I look for before I swap the balance complete for the previous one?

 

[AndyGSi]

10 minutes ago, Simeon said:

I now have the beat error down to 0.3ms but the watch is now losing 170 secs a day. The regulator arm is pretty much maxed out on the negative side. The watch was gaining 30 odd seconds on the previous balance (albeit with a bad beat error).

Can you confirm what you mean by maxed out on the negative side as this would imply you can speed it up?

[praezis]

15 minutes ago, Simeon said:

decided to swap the entire balance cock for another, which seemingly had a decent hairspring.

Did you swap cock, hairspring and balance wheel or cock and hairspring only?

[Simeon]

22 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Can you confirm what you mean by maxed out on the negative side as this would imply you can speed it up?

Sorry, I meant positive side. The regulator arm is almost touching the train bridge and pointing across to the positive sign on the opposite side of the cock. Shortening the effective length of the hairspring. 

20 minutes ago, praezis said:

Did you swap cock, hairspring and balance wheel or cock and hairspring only?

Yes, I swapped the whole balance cock, including the balance wheel and hairspring. I cleaned this new balance cock by soaking in naphtha, agitating it with my blower. I then dipped it in IPA to rinse and then blew it dry. Cleaned and oiled the top jewel endstone.

I have got it down to (up to?) about +10 secs a day now by playing with the regulatora and stud carrier. If I accept a bad beat error, I can get better regulation (the amplitude went up as well).

Should I rotate the hairspring collet on the balance staff to fix the beat error and bring the stud carrier and regulator arm back, allowing more adjustment?

Perhaps I should just call it quits as this might be the best performance I can get out of a 40 odd year old Soviet movement. 

[rehajm]

2 hours ago, Simeon said:

I have got it down to (up to?) about +10 secs a day now by playing with the regulatora and stud carrier

You haven't discussed positional error but @ +10 on a not Swiss I'm stopping there

[Simeon]

25 minutes ago, rehajm said:

You haven't discussed positional error but @ +10 on a not Swiss I'm stopping there

DU and DD are basically the same (+12 DU). It runs slow in the vertical positions (-14 PD, -17 PR). It seems pretty good, despite the beat error. 

I think I will call it a day. 

[nevenbekriev]

You need to close the gap between the regulator pins (to reduce the play of the hairspring betwee the pins).

This 40 years old USSR movements are actually the most precise soviet movements ever and no mater how old, they can perform not worse than any omega for example. The only problem that they develop after many years of work is wear of the hole for the barrel arbor in the barrel bridge. Why should You replace the main spring, it is OK for sure.

 

[Jon]

Have a look at my post on this subject regarding the gap in the curb pin and boot (regulator pins)

But by your pics the endcurve of the hairspring looks a bit suspect. Have a look at this post where I show the correct endcurves

 

 

Edited July 17, 2024 by Jon

[nevenbekriev]

Actually the end curve seems correct (for this movement). At least what I see on the picture.

[Nucejoe]

 You should check how proper every parts works as you disassemble,   I do ! 

 Must removed both stud and regulator arm clean and polish if necessary to get them move independent as in a  new watch. 

otherwise , have to be redone if first time was a half a... job، which increases the chance of ruining something.

Adjust the regul slot as said, you might need to tweak/ adjust  the hairspring  a bit to get every part  work right. 

Strang, your tg print out shows a decent escapement , not bad for a cheap watch.

Good luck

 

Edited July 17, 2024 by Nucejoe