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Hello all,Help needed!

I'ma relative novice, slowly developing my skills, but I could really use some advice to deal with the balance on this rather lovely

Roamer MST372 . Is it a shock setting, like a  KIF?desperately don’t want to screw this up! Thanks !

tonyG

 

 

IMG_3373.jpeg

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23 minutes ago, tonydagee said:

Hello all,Help needed!

I'ma relative novice, slowly developing my skills, but I could really use some advice to deal with the balance on this rather lovely

Roamer MST372 . Is it a shock setting, like a  KIF?desperately don’t want to screw this up! Thanks !

tonyG

 

 

IMG_3373.jpeg

This is a supershock spring. Rotate until one of the arms reaches the notch in the setting then lift out the spring. The cap jewel may be held in with dried up oil. If you are finding it difficult to remove place a drop of lighter fluid on the jewel and let it soak in to loosen up the oil.

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May help if you place something in the hole of the spring (toothpick is good) with one hand whilst you rotate it with the other, then if it jumps out the toothpick will catch it.... may same you hours on your hands and knees looking for it.

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 To eliminate the risk of damaging balance complete, I always detach it, before proceding as said above, furthermore, detach the regulator hand & stud carrier , place the cock on anvil, you wouldn't want to push on the cock when installed on mainplate, Also put a bit of rodico on the shock spring with only the arm you be rotating exposed.

A slip of the tool you,l be using and you likely to destroy your balance complete,so detach a keep it in safe place. 

Hard to rotate the spring without pushing on the cock, which risk bending the cock thus eventually reduce  balance endshake.

Rgds

Edited by Nucejoe
To explain more
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26 minutes ago, Waggy said:

May help if you place something in the hole of the spring (toothpick is good) with one hand whilst you rotate it with the other, then if it jumps out the toothpick will catch it.... may same you hours on your hands and knees looking for it.

One with a condom on the end of it 😉

These newbs have a gotta learn Scott , we cant always carry em  😆

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33 minutes ago, Waggy said:

May help if you place something in the hole of the spring (toothpick is good) with one hand whilst you rotate it with the other, then if it jumps out the toothpick will catch it.... may same you hours on your hands and knees looking for it.

Definitely.

An alternative is placing a thin/transparency sheet of plastic on top of it and working "through it".

That also works really well when you want to re-insert it. Also reduces the risks that @Nucejoe is referring to with a bit less hassle.

 

 

  

22 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 To eliminate the risk of damaging balance complete, I always detach it, before proceding as said above, furthermore, detach the regulator hand & stud carrier , place the cock on anvil, you wouldn't want to push on the cock when installed on mainplate, Also put a bit of rodico on the shock spring with only the arm you be rotating exposed.

A slip of the tool you,l be using and you likely to destroy your balance complete,so detach a keep it in safe place. 

Hard to rotate the spring without pushing on the cock, which risk bending the cock thus eventually reduce  balance endshake.

Rgds

Frankly, most beginners/intermediates are more likely to damage the hairspring/balance when removing it from the cock. 

But you raise a good point. When turning the arms of these shock springs, make sure you're just exerting sideways pressure, not pushing down too much.

Edited by Knebo
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23 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

 To eliminate the risk of damaging balance complete, I always detach it, before proceding as said above, furthermore, detach the regulator hand & stud carrier , place the cock on anvil, you wouldn't want to push on the cock when installed on mainplate, Also put a bit of rodico on the shock spring with only the arm you be rotating exposed.

A slip of the tool you,l be using and you likely to destroy your balance complete,so detach a keep it in safe place. 

Hard to rotate the spring without pushing on the cock, which risk bending the cock thus eventually reduce  balance endshake.

Rgds

That seems really cautious Joe, you've also suggested disassembly of the regulator arms ? Some cheaper vintage watches have to be unpinned at the stud to remove balances. Is this your usual method for removing the shock assembly ?

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Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

 Is this your usual method for removing the shock assembly ?

Yes, I always detach the balance complete, before working on shock spring. 

It also gives me a chance to check the coil ( nothing replaces looking directly down the coil ) , check the collet, alignment of hair spring  leaving the collet with stud pinning.

Also the hole of settings housing, have plenty to show where pivot has rubbed and grind the hole, and many more checking & adjusting.

Detach & instal balance complete is a very neccesary task in mechanical watch repair, pivots break, H/ S ruined beyond repair, rotating the collet ... etc. 

I find pegging upper balance pivot risky with balance attached.

Rgds

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2 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Yes, I always detach the balance complete, before working on shock spring. 

It also gives me a chance to check the coil ( nothing replaces looking directly down the coil ) , check the collet, alignment of hair spring  leaving the collet with stud pinning.

Also the hole of settings housing, have plenty to show where pivot has rubbed and grind the hole, and many more checking & adjusting.

Detach & instal balance complete is a very neccesary task in mechanical watch repair, pivots break, H/ S ruined beyond repair, rotating the collet ... etc. 

I find pegging upper balance pivot risky with balance attached.

Rgds

That's a thorough method Joe, i can't argue at all with your approach of stripping a balance back to check everything, I like it👍.  It does require a lot of skill though, so not so much of a beginners way of doing things. 

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As a general point, as you are learning, I would spend some time practicing on shock springs. As a general rule, Incabloc are probably the easiest to deal with as they are anchored and the main risk is removing and replacing the jewel and setting (a jewel picker upper, (a pen like device with gel on the end) or a bit of Rodeo can help here). Springs that are removed entirely, like the one above or the notorious Seiko Diashock are a challenge.

 

What worked for me when I was learning (having pinged a few springs into orbit) was to buy a gash movement, one of those nasty frankenwatch Seiko's are ideal (try and find a 21 jewel as they have diashocks on the bridge too). Then don't try and fix it (you'll go insane) just practice removing and replacing the springs and jewels from the balance and the bridge. Keep going until you are comfortable. I have made a couple of probes with a sewing needle glued into a drilled length of peg wood, which work really well. as do no5 tweezers. I usually use either the jewel picker upper thingy to transfer the spring to the movement, tipping it off the end with the probe onto the setting and then, with the probe towards the inside of the spring (to stop if flying away, as suggested by others, rotating it with the tweezers. Once you have one tab in, gently apply light pressure to either side and twist. If the tab not other side is sitting too high for the slot, hold the other side down with a probe and gently depress it with the tweezers / other probe and then gently rotate. 

It take practice. Just be gentle, they require no force to move. If you are tensing up or shaking, stop take a break and come back to it. Keep practicing and it will become easier, trust me. 

 

We've all been there 🙂

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Something that can happen with a lyre spring, the back of the arms can bind against the shoulders of the chaton cut out where the spring is fixed in when the spring is lifted out of the way. To stop the spring bending or breaking it needs pulling forward slightly before lifting so it clears the edge of the chaton.

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