Stereo Microscope

[TimpanogosSlim]

Well, I have just experimentally used this graf-apsco. 

I put the main plate from a vostok parts movement in a movement holder and disassembled and removed the lower balance jewel setting. 

With the space available under the optics i could easily manipulate things with tweezers, but getting a screwdriver in was very awkward. 

Additionally, the area i can see is no bigger than about 16mm across with the lower magnification lenses. 

So, with the presumption that i probably can't easily change the optics to get more depth and width, I think this is best regarded as a beautiful example of space-age industrial design that is perhaps useful for hairspring manipulation and maybe careful cleaning? 

 

[Skyfiller]

22 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

I posted a page or two back about the part number decoding, as well as a minor breakdown of the AmScope sale strategy/amount/timing.

@spectre6000That's what I was thanking you and everyone else for. I must of read your posts half a dozen times  Will be getting the 20x eyepieces for my kids as well, great idea.

27 minutes ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

So, with the presumption that i probably can't easily change the optics to get more depth and width, I think this is best regarded as a beautiful example of space-age industrial design that is perhaps useful for hairspring manipulation and maybe careful cleaning? 

Now that is an object of beauty. It's a shame it can't be used for what you wanted in the main but if that were mine it would be taking the place of some of the wife's figurines on the mantelpiece

C.

[spectre6000]

3 hours ago, Skyfiller said:

@spectre6000That's what I was thanking you and everyone else for. I must of read your posts half a dozen times  Will be getting the 20x eyepieces for my kids as well, great idea.

Sorry about that/you're welcome. I started out answering the part about the 10% sale, but accidentally linked to the part number breakdown post, then saw the thing about the part number quagmire, and things devolved. We started potty training our 2 year old this weekend, and it's been a long day. 15% comes up from time to time, check out the Wayback Machine on obvious time periods, and you'll be able to figure when to wait for.

Re: 20x eyepieces, they came in handy this past week in a non-child way. I listen to a lot of vinyl, and we had a record that was skipping. I recalled reading a few years back that it might be possible to repair a skipping record. Tons of caveats; You have to know what you're doing, be super careful, guess right, etc. I figured I could probably eliminate a lot of the guesswork if I could see it. I saw what was likely my skipping scratch, and got up on it with the microscope, but nothing... I turned the album around on the offending track a while, and then I found the problem... A dust mote wasn't actually a dust mote, but some hard bit of ash or something that melted into a groove, and was really stuck in there! I grabbed my 0.5mm watchmaking screwdriver, dropped it in the groove like a needle, and popped that hard little thing out! No more skip! Excellent tool! 

Edited February 20, 2022 by spectre6000

[TimpanogosSlim]

6 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

I posted a page or two back about the part number decoding, as well as a minor breakdown of the AmScope sale strategy/amount/timing.

Looks like 15% off is as far as they will mark down open box, too. So right now, in the president's day sale, you can get a new or open box SM-4TP for $486.19, and coupon codes don't apply to open box. 

Or there's this: 

https://www.amazon.com/Parco-Scientific-PA-5FZ-Trinocular-Magnification/dp/B078PSZJCB/

i don't think i am at a point where spending four or five bills on a microscope makes sense though. 

[Klassiker]

I have something similar, with an integrated lighting ring, but without the swan-necks. Mine cost about a quarter of that. I bought  stand-alone swan-necks and I add Illumination from below in some circumstances. Getting the lighting right is tricky. It's good for inspection and saving the pictures to the pc, but of limited use for working under.

[dismaldunc]

16 hours ago, Plato said:

Not the exact model but I think something similar is reviewed here:

 

Thanks for this chaps, will give it a good look, 

[spectre6000]

11 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

Or there's this: 

https://www.amazon.com/Parco-Scientific-PA-5FZ-Trinocular-Magnification/dp/B078PSZJCB/

Exact same thing without the AmScope sticker (which peeled off on mine on its own the other day), and for a better price. That's most of what I ended up putting together at a pretty stellar price. Just add the light, 20X eyepieces, and Canon mount, and I think that's it for what I went with with my bonus bits. The only other thing necessary for watchmaking though, is the light. Looking through their Amazon store, that seems to be the cheapest option with the double boom stand, so I guess they don't have an even cheaper one without the 2x Barlow. That's likely the best deal I've seen yet on a proper watchmaking setup.

Actually, I just went to the link I posted previously, and it's dead. Searching organically, and they've bumped the price up $20. So... The current best value option for a watchmaking microscope setup is:

Scope+ ($450 shipped):

https://www.amazon.com/Parco-Scientific-PA-5FZ-Trinocular-Magnification/dp/B078PSZJCB/

and

Light ($22.99 shipped):

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VR2LJJL/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00

If you want to be able to take photos to be able to get help here, you have your choice of cameras or camera mounts, which vary wildly. Still, If $473 was all it took to get where I'm at without all the spreadsheets, and decoding, and research, and figuring out sales schedules, I'd have pulled the trigger much sooner.

[TimpanogosSlim]

4 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

Exact same thing without the AmScope sticker (which peeled off on mine on its own the other day), and for a better price.

 

It looks like there are some ebay vendors at around the $400 price point as well. 

Something to think about i guess. I grew up in a big family on an english professor's salary so some level of frugality and DIY ethic is baked into my psyche but it seems like the chances of this sort of scope coming up for sale used at a hefty discount are slim. 

[TimpanogosSlim]

So wait, do the reducing barlows expand the working range? Like if i were to glue an 0.5x to the shroud around the objective lenses on me graf-apsco, maybe i can comfortably get a screwdriver under there?

[HectorLooi]

A 0.5x Barlow lens will halve your magnification but double your working distance.

Most modern microscopes have screw threads on the lens shroud where accessory lenses can be attached. Yours has a lens shroud. Maybe you can remove it and 3D print something where you can fix a Barlow lens and maybe a ring light even.

[TimpanogosSlim]

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

A 0.5x Barlow lens will halve your magnification but double your working distance.

Most modern microscopes have screw threads on the lens shroud where accessory lenses can be attached. Yours has a lens shroud. Maybe you can remove it and 3D print something where you can fix a Barlow lens and maybe a ring light even.

That shroud covers a turret that has two pair of objectives and spins freely with two stops. One set has twice the magnification of the other. Either of them have more magnification than i need for most watchmaking tasks.

If i physically attach a ring light i will have to make sure there is enough wire slack so that i can switch back and forth between the two sets of objectives. I've ordered a cheap 12v LED ring (for automotive headlight "halo" effect) that i was thinking i would mount so that it rests around that turret. 

I don't remember the measurements of the small end of the shroud but in the neighborhood of 50mm sounds about right to me. 

silicone or hot glue to the shroud might be a pipe dream, it's not a big deal to 3d print something, even with threads to mount a lens -- I've already printed adapters to mount photographic filters to USB cameras.

I wear glasses and having a circular polarizing filter on the webcam to cut back on the glare makes video conferences slightly less awkward. Though i have to say - I have been working from home since september 2017 and i can count on one hand the number of times that anyone at my current employer, who predominantly employs people who work from home, has even suggested a video conference. 

One time, it was an all-hands meeting to introduce a newly hired C-level executive. The owner said he "wanted to see some faces out there". And 5 minutes later, disappointed with the number of faces he could see, said he would pay a $100 bonus to anyone who turned on their camera. But it was hot in my house and i wasn't wearing a shirt!

I already ordered the "wide field" 5x eyepieces from an aliexpress vendor in hopes they provide a somewhat wider field of view than the ones i got from amazon. Look exactly like what would cost $40+ship from amscope but with a total out of pocket at about $14. I also tinker on small electronics from time to time and the Graf-Apsco should be handy for minute board-level repairs as it is now. 

There's an ebay vendor that will sell me an 0.5x barlow with 42, 48, or 50mm mount for $19ish. If that doubles the working range, that's worth it. 

[gbyleveldt]

For some perspective by picture:

That's a 7x-45x Stereo Amscope with a 0.5x Barlow lens and 10x eyepieces. It shows a working height of 200mm and that Bergeon movement holder just fills the complete sight picture in the microscope on the lowest magnification. I tried taking pics through the eyepieces but my phone camera doesn't want to play along

I got it years ago for working on automotive engine control units as my day job (lots of really small parts on those; smaller than watch parts to be honest) and I use it pretty much all day every day. Soldering, hot air rework, that kinda thing. When I got into the watchmaking hobby I simply carried on using that microscope as I'm comfortable with it. I've tried watchmakers eyeglasses but it's no where near as convenient as working with the microscope (to me at least) so I don't bother with eyeglasses at all anymore. It's great because I can work on a standard height bench and I sit upright to look through the microscope, not hunched over as I would wearing eyeglasses.

Edited February 21, 2022 by gbyleveldt

[spectre6000]

20 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

It looks like there are some ebay vendors at around the $400 price point as well. 

Links?

[spectre6000]

3 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

It's great because I can work on a standard height bench and I sit upright to look through the microscope, not hunched over as I would wearing eyeglasses.

This is arguably almost as much a benefit as the improved visibility. Watchmaking benches are rare and expensive; much more expensive than a microscope. You can rig up a tall work surface to save your neck, but then your arms/shoulders are the next in line of contortion. I went the opposite direction initially, and bought a cheap wooden stool from IKEA, then chopped the legs off to make it short. Cheaper than raising or a raised work surface. Still had the arms/shoulder issue, but then add that I either needed to really be able to stretch out my legs, or my knees were on the list of contortion. With the 'scope, I'm at a perfectly serviceable work height all around. There are three things that keep me from watchmaking: one is the physical discomfort (solved), two is the eye strain/inability to really see what I'm doing (solved), and the third is just finding time (constant struggle).

[LittleWatchShop]

19 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

Watchmaking benches are rare and expensive

Yes, pretty rare.  I picked one up recently for $300.  Vintage, very early 1900s.  But, your point is well taken!

My microscope sits on my electronic work bench.

[Nucejoe]

I need to get me a new Microscope, is this good?  your opinion please. 

https://esam.ir/zoomItemN.aspx?img=14896191_1645400391_714.jpg&slide=1&IDi=22252680

Thanks in advance.

 

[watchweasol]

Hi Joe   I have somthing similar for close inspection work, I does the job. not tried to work under it as its a bit close to thhands and looking at the screen and working  a bit disorientating.  Not got the required surgical technique.

[Nucejoe]

Says its DM4 if that helps, I don't know the first thing about this stuff.

[watchweasol]

Hi Joe  I think its what you want it for . If its to work under for balance work etc Its not good enough you need a different scope like the one attached which is a binocular scope with a decent working distance.    Cheers

[TimpanogosSlim]

8 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

Links?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/383948619796

[HectorLooi]

20 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

That shroud covers a turret that has two pair of objectives and spins freely with two stops. One set has twice the magnification of the other. Either of them have more magnification than i need for most watchmaking tasks.

I was thinking about this statement and I think you don't have a true stereo microscope.

A true stereo microscope has two separate optical pathways, with two separate objective lenses side by side, to give stereoscopic vision. From your description, if it shares a single objective lens, it would be impossible to give stereoscopic vision.

[Nucejoe]

Hi Weasol,   Thanks for your response,

I need one with a monitor( neck problem ), not many types are available to buy here. will keep looking for one.

Regards

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

3 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I was thinking about this statement and I think you don't have a true stereo microscope.

A true stereo microscope has two separate optical pathways, with two separate objective lenses side by side, to give stereoscopic vision. From your description, if it shares a single objective lens, it would be impossible to give stereoscopic vision.

Nope, it's a true stereo microscope. Like i keep saying, the turret has two pair of objectives. If you search google images for "graf apsco stereo-graf" there are many versions of it, but i haven't come across another with a turret like this one. 

I haven't taken a good picture of the objectives yet. Maybe tomorrow. Here's a fuzzy crop of one of my existing pictures. 

I think i will order the 0.5x barlow and between now and when it gets here from china i have some time to acquaint myself with the threads library for OpenSCAD - replace the shroud with a lens adapter. 

 

[spectre6000]

14 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/383948619796

We have a new winner! 

Current Champ-een:

What I'm calling the ideal scope + a 2X Barlow for $399.28 (free shipping):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/383948619796

Light ($22.99 shipped):

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VR2LJJL/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00

Given this trend, I'm sure the light (and whatever other peripherals) can be found for less as well. The cost of proper watchmaking microscopy has been dramatically reduced through this crowd sourced sourcing here... When I started looking, I was having a hard time justifying a $600-700 purchase. I don't think I'd have paused nearly as long at $420.

[TimpanogosSlim]

13 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

Nope, it's a true stereo microscope. Like i keep saying, the turret has two pair of objectives. If you search google images for "graf apsco stereo-graf" there are many versions of it, but i haven't come across another with a turret like this one. 

I haven't taken a good picture of the objectives yet. Maybe tomorrow. Here's a fuzzy crop of one of my existing pictures. 

I think i will order the 0.5x barlow and between now and when it gets here from china i have some time to acquaint myself with the threads library for OpenSCAD - replace the shroud with a lens adapter. 

 

Here we go.