Stereo Microscope

[Michael1962]

I had a bit of a quiz. Not a huge one as I have to duck off to work. Yeah, I know.

It is not going to be a cheap exercise in Oz.

[Michael1962]

quiz should be squizz

[HectorLooi]

Pardon my Oz... What's a squizz?

[Michael1962]

It's Aussie for a look. I had a squizz. I had a wizz is a completely different thing.

[HectorLooi]

 

4 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

It's Aussie for a look. I had a squizz. I had a wizz is a completely different thing.

Ok. I had to google what wizz means.

If I understand what wizz means, then what's the Australian product called "wizz fuzz"???

And what's up with the packaging? 

[spectre6000]

Looks like Xmas-themed packaging. Not sure where all it's done and not, but here (and I guess Australia) stockings are hung on the chimney mantel, and Santa puts little gifts in them. Candy and whatever small things will fit. I'm guessing that's an Aussie version of Pop Rocks?

[mikepilk]

That's the same microscope I use (slightly different stand). I absolutely love it and use it more than I thought I would - for stripping/oiling/reassembly. I work in a very dusty room, so I can see and dirt.

Not sure you need 20x eyepieces - you might find you're too close to easily use screwdrivers.
I use 10x eyepieces and a 0.5 Barlow lens, which gives me 20x mag (I think) and a working depth of about 5".  I find 20x plenty. I only take the 0.5 off (to give 40x mag) if I need a really close up view of a balance pivot, and I never bother with the 2x Barlow.

Edited November 26, 2021 by mikepilk

[spectre6000]

My mom wrote science textbooks for the US and Canada growing up (she retired last year), and I had a very science oriented childhood. My daughter will have the same and more (we had a badass telescope, but not a proper microscope). The 2X Barlow/20X eye pieces are an inexpensive upgrade that will bridge the gap to a compound scope down the road should she express interest in going down that route. Not for watchmaking so much as looking at butterfly wings, onion skin cells, (water) bear hunts, etc. That's why I separated those items out and didn't include them in the total. I also formatted the lead lines to their respective paragraphs differently. Bold + underline is watchmaking setup, plain is expensive and fragile toys for children young and old. Looking back, I did not make that clear at all... Edited.

Edited November 26, 2021 by spectre6000

[mikepilk]

32 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

My mom wrote science textbooks for the US and Canada growing up (she retired last year), and I had a very science oriented childhood. My daughter will have the same and more (we had a badass telescope, but not a proper microscope). The 2X Barlow/20X eye pieces are an inexpensive upgrade that will bridge the gap to a compound scope down the road should she express interest in going down that route. Not for watchmaking so much as looking at butterfly wings, onion skin cells, (water) bear hunts, etc. That's why I separated those items out and didn't include them in the total. I also formatted the lead lines to their respective paragraphs differently. Bold + underline is watchmaking setup, plain is expensive and fragile toys for children young and old. Looking back, I did not make that clear at all... Edited.

Sorry, my mistake, I was only skimming through and didn't read your (clear) instructions properly !

I wondered why you were buying the eyepieces and Barlow lenses separately.

I'd never looked through a stereo microscope before, and it still amazes me how bright and clear the image is.  As a child we only had cheap monocular microscopes with a slide, and very weak light shining through it.

Your mention of water bears - reminded me of the only time I used the 2x Barlow. I became fascinated by tardigrades and went looking. After several attempts I eventually found one in some moss from the garden. I couldn't get a decent photo though, at 80x there's such a narrow depth of view and they're transparent !

Edited November 26, 2021 by mikepilk

[xyzzy]

3 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Not sure you need 20x eyepieces - you might find you're too close to easily use screwdrivers.

Unlike a Barlow lens, the eyepieces don't change the working distance.  With a 10x in the left and and 20x in the right, both are in focus at the same time.  You can use the 20x with a 0.5x Barlow to get the same magnification as 10x with no Barlow but keep the longer working distance.

But the 20x eyepieces are not magic crime drama "zoom and enhance" that create something from nothing.  The image from the microscope objective is only so good and like zooming in on an already taken photo, what you see in the 20x isn't as clear as the 10x.

[Michael1962]

 

17 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

 

Ok. I had to google what wizz means.

If I understand what wizz means, then what's the Australian product called "wizz fuzz"???

And what's up with the packaging? 

That’s actually called Wizz Fizz. It was around when I was a kid. I suppose it is pretty much like sherbet. Super fizzy and enough sugar to cause you diabetes if you’re over 40.

[spectre6000]

This is devolving to an exploration in cultural lexicography, but like a train wreck it's hard to look away...

Sherbet apparently also has a special meaning when it's written upside down... Here, that would be like ice cream, but fruit (fruit flavored in the cheap varieties), without dairy, and lots of sugar to allow it to freeze with small ice crystals. There is zero fizz to be found. Define "sherbet" in Ozese...

The bulk of my microscope expected to arrive Wednesday. Other bits and pieces have yet to ship. Anticipation! Unfortunately, I also ordered a bunch of electronics bits and pieces around the same time which will displace my watchmaking work surface/time for a bit. Fortunately/unfortunately, one of the most critical components is coming from China, and will likely experience significant delays, so I might get some quality time being able to see what I'm doing before it all gets here and requires the bulk of my attention!

[LittleWatchShop]

With bated breath, I await yor full assembly and subsequent commentary on the efficacy of your chosen solution.

I anticipate upgrading my optics once observing if and how the arrows find their targets!

[nickelsilver]

2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

With bated breath, I await yor full assembly and subsequent commentary on the efficacy of your chosen solution.

I anticipate upgrading my optics once observing if and how the arrows find their targets!

I've had a stereo microscope over my lathe since I was 25, and used them for checking work (and working) since before that. I'm approaching 50 now, and would quit the trade if I was forbidden microscopes. Huge, huge, asset.

[spectre6000]

Ok. Found a big downside to the cost saving strategy outlined above: it doesn't all arrive at once, and the anticipation gets pretty ridiculous. Wouldn't be a big deal, but one of the packages was lost, so now I'm sitting here with most of a microscope, but not enough to be functional. It's sitting on top of my roll top desk under its cover, just taunting me. The missing part is the light, which results in a pretty dim image. Combined with the lighting in my office being pretty poor, and given the fact that this is to make it easier to see, it's kind of a deal killer as far as getting anything done. I tried setting lights up around it, but desk real estate is already tight, and it was not a functional situation. I'm two years out of date on my glasses prescription with no end to the pandemic in sight, and the situation getting worse by the day. By the time I get to where I can think about watches in the evening, my eyes are already toast. A dimly light microscope image seems like a great way to give me an even bigger headache. 

In the meantime, I'm also waiting on electronics components that have been stuck at port in CA for some amount of time. I've been slowly working on that project, but I think last night hit the end of what can possibly be accomplished with the parts available. So... Lots of idle time in my immediate future.

[xyzzy]

I've found my cellphone camera can get an image with the microscope light off, even though I can't see a thing.  In some ways the pictures are better this way.  More noise, but I feel like you see better depth in a picture with less direct lighting.

 

[Plato]

On 12/10/2021 at 4:38 PM, spectre6000 said:

Ok. Found a big downside to the cost saving strategy outlined above: it doesn't all arrive at once, and the anticipation gets pretty ridiculous. Wouldn't be a big deal, but one of the packages was lost, so now I'm sitting here with most of a microscope, but not enough to be functional. It's sitting on top of my roll top desk under its cover, just taunting me. The missing part is the light, which results in a pretty dim image. Combined with the lighting in my office being pretty poor, and given the fact that this is to make it easier to see, it's kind of a deal killer as far as getting anything done. I tried setting lights up around it, but desk real estate is already tight, and it was not a functional situation. I'm two years out of date on my glasses prescription with no end to the pandemic in sight, and the situation getting worse by the day. By the time I get to where I can think about watches in the evening, my eyes are already toast. A dimly light microscope image seems like a great way to give me an even bigger headache. 

In the meantime, I'm also waiting on electronics components that have been stuck at port in CA for some amount of time. I've been slowly working on that project, but I think last night hit the end of what can possibly be accomplished with the parts available. So... Lots of idle time in my immediate future.

I was considering buying a microscope from Amscope myself but because of all the bad reviews they get I  went for a second hand Vickers on ebay instead. 

It's a shame that Amscope's service is so poor because the microscopes themselves are meant to be great. 

Maybe if they offered fewer configurations they would stand a better chance of delivering a working item on time. 

Hope you get yours up and running soon, I can imagine how frustrating it must be. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Plato
Missed a word out

[mikepilk]

7 minutes ago, Plato said:

I was considering buying a microscope from Amscope myself but because of all the bad reviews they get I  went for a second hand Vickers on ebay instead. 

It's a shame that Amscope's service is so poor because the microscopes themselves are meant to be great. 

Maybe if they offered fewer configurations they would stand a better chance of delivering a working item on time. 

Hope you get yours up and running soon, I can imagine how frustrating it must be. 

I didn't realise Amscope had a reputation for poor service. I bought mine (AmScope SM-3TZ 3.5X-90X Trinocular Stereo Zoom Microscope) and the LED light from Amazon (here in the UK), so all delivered in 2 days with no problems.

Couldn't live without it - do all my work under it.

[Plato]

15 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I didn't realise Amscope had a reputation for poor service. I bought mine (AmScope SM-3TZ 3.5X-90X Trinocular Stereo Zoom Microscope) and the LED light from Amazon (here in the UK), so all delivered in 2 days with no problems.

Couldn't live without it - do all my work under it.

I think the problem is with Amscope, if you buy from Amazon you're covered but it costs more. I read some reviews on Amazon from some disgruntled Amscope customers. Again, the microscopes are meant to be great, as long as you get what you ordered. Cousins sell them too.

[spectre6000]

Yeah. Their catalog is ridiculous. Every. Single. Permutation. Possible. With its own dedicated part number and page. Not only that, but the descriptions and specifications appear to be written specific to each one rather than a cut and paste job or something. I imagine if you were to pare it down to maybe heads plus all the available options, they'd only have a half dozen or so actual products.

It took quite a while and spreadsheet to figure out all of the actual options and build a part number from that. A better designed site with options in drop down menus or whatever, despite the appearance of a dramatically reduced catalog, would probably increase $/sale too since a lot of the options are effectively unknown behind the opacity of their part number system. The cost of inventory, warehousing, and fulfillment could probably be reduced significantly to just one guy assembling and boxing kits built a la carte.

I was surprised when mine showed up with the actual part number on the box, but just the head. The head configuration is likely shared across a half dozen different part numbers. The stand (the "4" in the part number) was in its own box, unmarked. If, as it appears, they're maintaining actual inventory of all of those discrete part numbers, the problem is beyond just poor web design. 

I noticed a handful of other internet retailers selling exactly the same white labeled equipment. Amscope is clearly the biggest/most well known/whatever, but the brand I bought the accessories from is selling from the same catalog at much lower prices, even with the additional overhead from Amazon. It seems like an opportunity to take the slot with a competing brand and better management. Marketing would be key, but a better website and strong backup (customer service, warranty, etc.) would also be required.

I'm coming up on an expected period of minimal activity while a prototype does its thing and produces data, so my brain is looking for another business opportunity... I'm too deep financially in the current venture to be able to sink capital into something like this, but that doesn't stop my brain from trying to flesh it out.

As for Amscope having a poor reputation, first I've heard of it save that it's a low cost Chinese option. There are certainly applications that demand higher quality equipment, but for my home hobbyist use it's a pretty fantastic tool at a reasonable price. My buddy has been using an Amscope stereomicroscope for a while for electronics, and his only complaint is that he wishes he had checked some slightly different option boxes. I contacted their customer service at one point, and they were very responsive, accommodating, US-based, empowered, and that was the day before Thanksgiving when everyone was trying to check out early for the holiday. No complaints there.

Finally, just to record it for people coming through this later on trying to figure out how to time a purchase, there was a period of full price a week and a half before Thanksgiving. A week prior to Thanksgiving was a pre-Black Friday sale to the tune of 10%. Then a few days of nothing. Then Black Friday was 15%, and I think it bled into Cyber Monday at 15% as well. Then a few days of nothing, then 10% for Xmas through today (12/12/21). There's mention a few pages back of another date with its attendant discount percentage.

[mikepilk]

Over on this side of the pond, they started the 'Black Friday' thing a few years ago. It's noticeable that many items actually increase in price, despite them being advertised as 'sale'. It's generally a good time to not buy.  Cyber Monday? sounds like another chance for retailers to pretend to be giving us a good deal !

[Plato]

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

Over on this side of the pond, they started the 'Black Friday' thing a few years ago. It's noticeable that many items actually increase in price, despite them being advertised as 'sale'. It's generally a good time to not buy.  Cyber Monday? sounds like another chance for retailers to pretend to be giving us a good deal !

I think Which magazine highlighted that 92% of items on sale during Black Friday were available cheaper during other times of the year. Maybe not all at once though?

I'm still a sucker for special offers - I recently bought my 4th Dremel just because it was cheap, it's still in its box but I just couldn't miss out on a 'great deal'!

Aaaarghh. 

[spectre6000]

Ok, guys... I feel like you left out a pretty critical detail here in all this microscope business. When you can finally see what's going on, you can see what's actually going on! The light showed up yesterday, and I had just enough time to get it all set up, and play around briefly. All the schmutz and crap that was completely unnoticed with a loupe was not expected. Everything all scratched to hell too! Granted, the movement I was looking at is one that's been out of its case for quite a while now, and not very carefully stored (borked hairspring), questionable history, etc. I have no idea what is from casual storage, and what I actually missed while cleaning, what scratches are on me, vs what were accumulated over the last 90 years or so. Also, all those crisp lines and letters carved into the plates aren't actually all that pretty up close... A letter "U" was even missing the right leg. I've seen that movement a dozen times, with and without loupe magnification, and never noticed that. What I thought was carefully, and precisely etched characters are pretty rough looking when you can see them. The notion of craftsmanship has had a shadow cast over it. It was just a 30s vintage Wittnauer, so I'd be interested to see something higher end/more modern to see how it compares, but really changed my perception.

Next observation: my glasses prescription is way out... I got some detail in the best focus I could, and my wife wanted to see. She was not able to pick up what I was putting down... Same problem showed up when I tried to get a photo through the simulfocal port. I would get it as in focus as I could, but it never came out something someone could really see.

On the whole though, wow. Holee wow. Being able to see has been a major struggle all along, and it's a huge change in perception. Another major issue I've had has been being able to get close enough with my clip-on loupe and also get a screwdriver in to where I need it without the two hitting each other. Plenty of room to work AND see now! Finally, there was a moment when the stereoscopy hit me. I was looking at the gear train, and suddenly realized it was three dimensional. Like a switch flipped. It's going to take some getting used to, and I got a text this morning saying those electronics parts I've been waiting on will be delivered today, so the desk goes back to electronics this evening... Great timing.

Finally, a question: One of the things I did to get the scope set up last night was attach my old Canon camera. A ten year old DSLR that's been retired from standard photography duty in favor of iPhones. I noticed that the light getting through to the camera port is a fraction of that getting through the ocular ports. The image is quite dim. It's possibly a camera setting (I never used the camera much, more the wife's thing), but seems like there should be a lot more light. Is that normal? Is there something that can be done to boost the light? How are you guys taking these fantastic photos? One of the reasons to drop the dough on this thing is to be able to take photos of things if/when I get stuck so that I might get some help here when needed.

[mikepilk]

Glad to hear it's all working.

It's the 3D effect that really strikes you to start with.  And, yes, you do see all the  dust and dirt. I work on the desk in my computer room which unfortunately, very dusty. Which is why I do all assembly under the microscope - so I can see any dust particles ( I also have a small fan blowing gently over the work area to stop dust dropping in).

I take my glasses off when looking through the eyepieces, I find it much easier that way.

I don't have a DSLR but bought a cheap(ish) 5MP eyepiece camera which gives reasonable results. I don't have any problems with the light settings. 

Oiling cap jewels and tweaking hairsprings is so much easier under the microscope.

[spectre6000]

Is yours simulfocal or trinocular? Given the nature of optics, it stands to reason that since there's only so much light to begin with, it gets diluted as it's distributed. It may be that the amount diverted to the camera port is only a fraction of that delivered to the eye pieces, since that's where most of the work is done. It seems at the scale we're talking though, there should be plenty to go around. It's definitely much dimmer, through the camera screen or the viewport. Dimmer to the point that either something needs to be tweaked on the camera or it needs to be edited in software after the fact.