Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I bought a broken pocket watch to fix from ebay. It has a missing glass and missing hands and wasn’t running. I dismantled it all, and the only issue I have found is a broken pivot on the escape wheel. 
 

It’s a Mahlen watch. No numbers on the movement as far as I can tell. The base plate is 48.8mm - 19’’’ I think - and the wheel itself is about 7.7mm in diameter, with the pivot being about 4.8mm (I added a bit on due to the broken off bit)

How can I source a new part? The hands and glass I’m sure I can manage. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bbefixer.

I had the same type of problem when I first joined the forum. A pocket watch movement with no markings. Photographs of the the movement, and the members came to the rescue. Within days I had a number of suggestions. Found the details and information of the movement on ranfft. Never managed to get a donor, but at least I know what I need.  The members are really knowledgeable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To identify movements the standard practice is the actual diameter of the movement, and a front on image of both the movement side and the dial side- minus the dial. The setting mechanism (under the dial) is considered the "fingerprint" of the movement and 9/10 leads to full identification.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nickelsilver is right, movement diameter and keyless works ‘fingerprint’ are important for identifying movements.

That said, this appears to be a 7 jewel version of the a Revue 30 movement. 

A quick search with google turns up parts movements, and individual parts should be quite easy to come by. 

Hope that helps,

Mark

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it looks like GT Revue 30.

Doctor, You can not replace escape wheel by the dimensions You listed. One needs to know much more things like number of leaves of the pinion and it's diameter, the position in high of the table and the pinion, the hight between the pivots, the exact pivots diameter... And then, even if suitable wheel is found, one will need to know how to adjust the pallets position correctly.

Restoring antique movements is something different than replacing parts. In older movements parts are not interchangeable, this means spare parts do not exist. Here the case is different, but still escapement adjustment will be needed if a wheel from a donor is found. So may be it will be easier to restore the donor for You...Restoring antique movements usually means making of the parts needed and this requires knowlage and working on lathes skill. In this case repivoting of the wheel is the natural solution, but there is a long way that one must walk untill getting ready for such work.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, nevenbekriev said:

In older movements parts are not interchangeable

This is a very valid point and a subtlety that I was unaware of until fairly recently, learning all the time, the video below explains this point well:

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Restoring antique movements is something different than replacing parts. In older movements parts are not interchangeable, this means spare parts do not exist.

I agree with you completely for older watches, but the Revue 30 dates from 1910 onwards. 

They were still being made up until at least WW2, and there is reasonable parts interchangeability in my experience, assuming same jewel count.

Very early Revue 30 movements will be less tolerant of replacement parts being fitted without adjustment than the later ones. 

Escapement parts were the last to require hand fitting to eachother in each watch and are thus unique to the movement but the other parts from even an early Revue 30 should be interchangeable within watches with the same jewel count.
 

Since the escape wheel is part of the escapement there is no guarantee, but it’s likely an escape wheel from another 7 jewel Revue 30 will fit this watch. The escapement will need adjustment (pallet stones, safety action etc) may need adjustment to set up the escapement optimally, though.

Best Regards,

Mark


 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the replies. I'm probably not going to track down a replacement or donor movement - this cost me about £10 from ebay and it's very much a practice piece rather than a restoration. 
 

I've watched a video on how to repivot a wheel. Seems very easy with the right lathe, tools and expertise. But I'm not going to go down that route at this stage in my 'career'. I have got another idea though to get the watch running again - watch this space. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

I will advice to share the idea first here before doeing something to the movement

If I can’t re-pivot the wheel, the logical thing to do is to descend the pivot hole.  Plan is to either stick a suitably sized hole jewel (from a barrel bridge or something) or fashion a blob of epoxy on the underside of the escape wheel cock so the wheel sits on its one pivot on the base plate and the staff with the broken off pivot (which I’ll polish as best as I can) becomes the upper pivot. As long as it doesn’t foul the 4th wheel it should work?

I know it’s a bodge job, and if this were a rare movement, or belonged to someone else I would not do this. I’m just interested to see if I can get the thing to run. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Bonefixer said:

this cost me about £10 from ebay and it's very much a practice piece rather than a restoration. 

there are various approaches to learning watch repair. A lot of people want to jump right in and every single watches something to be repaired restored. But other times like this it's disposable it's here for you to learn and when you're through learning you throw it away.

25 minutes ago, Bonefixer said:

I know it’s a bodge job, and if this were a rare movement, or belonged to someone else I would not do this. I’m just interested to see if I can get the thing to run. 

yes you definitely should try this you have a learning movement you need to learn and the best way to learn is by doing something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure how well it shows on the picture, but a little blob of epoxy has formed a new pivot point for the escape wheel. I'll let it cure for 24 hours and then clean and reassemble the movement. It might work, don't know how long it'll last but hopefully long enough for me to be able to write "Daniels - London" on the dial and sell it for megabucks 🤣

IMG_0044.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Bonefixer said:

Not sure how well it shows on the picture, but a little blob of epoxy has formed a new pivot point for the escape wheel. I'll let it cure for 24 hours and then clean and reassemble the movement. It might work, don't know how long it'll last but hopefully long enough for me to be able to write "Daniels - London" on the dial and sell it for megabucks 🤣

IMG_0044.jpeg

Ah ok, i can see we need to watch out for any watches you decide to sell on the Bay or elsewhere. Can you please post them here first before doing that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess You had to try, as it would be hard to sleep without that try, but, I know the result before the experiment... As I told before, the friction will be so big that the wheel will not turn. The pivots have to be thin and polished - the bigger the number of the wheel (2th, 3gh, 4th...), the thinner the pivot.

What You are trying to do is possible, but forming the new thin pivot must be done on lathe. Thus the wheel will get shorter, but can have new pivot without the drilling for normal standard repivoting. Then piece of brass can be soldered under the pivot hole in the bridge and new hole drilled in it to form the new bearing.  Well, this way is not the recommended one, not quite correct, but it is possible to do for the excersize... When I say lathe, lathe may be verry simple, someting like turns, but made of what one has in reach of his hands. If You want to try, I will try to guide

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, nevenbekriev said:

I guess You had to try, as it would be hard to sleep without that try, but, I know the result before the experiment... As I told before, the friction will be so big that the wheel will not turn. The pivots have to be thin and polished - the bigger the number of the wheel (2th, 3gh, 4th...), the thinner the pivot.

What You are trying to do is possible, but forming the new thin pivot must be done on lathe. Thus the wheel will get shorter, but can have new pivot without the drilling for normal standard repivoting. Then piece of brass can be soldered under the pivot hole in the bridge and new hole drilled in it to form the new bearing.  Well, this way is not the recommended one, not quite correct, but it is possible to do for the excersize... When I say lathe, lathe may be verry simple, someting like turns, but made of what one has in reach of his hands. If You want to try, I will try to guide

The wheels turned fine. I set the escape wheel in the epoxy when it had just ‘skinned’ and wasn’t set, made sure it spun with the 4th wheel, and let it set. 
 

After cleaning I assembled the barrel and wheel train - all fine. Moving the barrel the escape wheel spun freely. I put a bit of 9010 in my epoxy setting. 
 

It went wrong when I put the pallet fork in. It wasn’t seated right (no jewels) and the escape wheel  knocked a pallet jewel out. I have no idea how to reset a pallet jewel - epoxy again?

I’m not spending any more time on this one - it’s missing hands and the front half of the case anyway, and I have more watches ready to put on the bench. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Bonefixer said:

It went wrong when I put the pallet fork in. It wasn’t seated right (no jewels) and the escape wheel  knocked a pallet jewel out. I have no idea how to reset a pallet jewel - epoxy again?

I’m not spending any more time on this one - it’s missing hands and the front half of the case anyway, and I have more watches ready to put on the bench. 

I usually don't read new introductions but when you came to the group did you want to learn watch repair? The reason I ask is your watch seems so suffered some damage under your hands. And now you're ready to move on to a new patient and have you learned? I often relate watch repair like learning to be a doctor lots of practicing. Even though this is a damaged watch have you practice taking it apart and putting it together a whole bunch at times so you feel confident that the next watch you probably won't break anything?

Then when watches were invented specifically pallet forks they didn't have epoxy glue which even if they did they wouldn't you used anyway because the pallet stones need to be moved around they need to be adjusted. so the substance of choice for holding pallet stones and roller jewel's in is shellac. It's a really interesting substance were if it's warmed up at melts the palace on can be moved around hopefully the correct position when it cools shellac hardens back up in the pallet stone will be held in place. If you're carefully could probably put your pallet stone back just warm up the fork carefully ideally there's a tool for this and your pallet stone would be fine.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

I usually don't read new introductions but when you came to the group did you want to learn watch repair? The reason I ask is your watch seems so suffered some damage under your hands. And now you're ready to move on to a new patient and have you learned? I often relate watch repair like learning to be a doctor lots of practicing. Even though this is a damaged watch have you practice taking it apart and putting it together a whole bunch at times so you feel confident that the next watch you probably won't break anything?

Then when watches were invented specifically pallet forks they didn't have epoxy glue which even if they did they wouldn't you used anyway because the pallet stones need to be moved around they need to be adjusted. so the substance of choice for holding pallet stones and roller jewel's in is shellac. It's a really interesting substance were if it's warmed up at melts the palace on can be moved around hopefully the correct position when it cools shellac hardens back up in the pallet stone will be held in place. If you're carefully could probably put your pallet stone back just warm up the fork carefully ideally there's a tool for this and your pallet stone would be fine.

This watch was damaged when I got it. I didn't break the escape wheel pivot, and I bodged a fix with epoxy to see if I could get it running. I'm not yet ready to get into lathe work, or shellacking jewels, and may never be. But I'm learning plenty with each watch I tackle. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Thank you for this post. Adding on to it, I've done a little digging trying to get the most bang for my buck. So I really wanted a set that had a base. You can buy the screwdrivers for around $33 usd 10 Piece Screwdriver Set. The base is around $32 usd Rotating Screwdriver Base (Grey) plus $20 in shipping, with tax you are looking at about $90 which is an excellent deal for what you get but I still didn't want to spend that much. I saw that they had the 9 piece set w/ base for $59 usd 9 Piece Screwdriver Set W/Base and I had a 'welcome discount' and got a matching 3mm screwdriver for 99 cents. 3mm Screwdriver. (without the discount the screwdriver is $6) With free shipping my total was $66.55 usd. So, I saved about $24 to go without a slot for a 3mm screwdriver. I'll take that! I hope this helps anyone looking to save a buck or two. Also, this corrects the issue of the orange 1.8mm screwdriver. 😉
    • No hex wrench needed there. Screw driver in case of AS1475 or just push the poinst down in case of Poljot2612.
    • Well, what is written here can't be explained with the wear of the winding/sliding pinion. Probably it is some kind of delusion from You side. But it prevented the people from pointing the reason of what is happening. Otherwice, this kind of wear is one of the common problems of winding works in watch movements. It meets often in old or cheap movements, or particulary in negative stem system pocket movements where not proper adjustment of the sleeve that guides the stem is done.  
    • Well I started with the rotor, then I couldn’t find how to let down the power so I removed the balance then found the click and let down the power.  After that I took apart most of the watchmaker side with the exception of the hour wheel which was still held by the cannon pinion and the hour wheel bridge which I put back when I realized the above.  I then went to the dial side and removed the cover plate. There were a few flat part which I had no idea what they were or where they should go as they got stuck to the plate by lubrication. Luckily I found an assembly video of that movement by the watch smith and he explained that those parts are part of the quick date setting system.  So I put them back in place and took a picture before continuing the disassembly  One thing I keep hearing in video or seeing in forums is that Chinese movements are often not lubricated. WellI can tell you the one I have is drenched in oil. Everything is stuck by capillary action on the dial side and I see pools of oil under each wheel.  Quite a bit of lint stuck to the oil too Just realized there were 3 screws, 2 holding the yoke maintaining plate and 1 holding the setting lever jumper.  I hope they are the same because I mixed them up and I can’t tell them apart.    Done with the disassembly and done for the day. For the reassembly I have a video to follow which is great because the dial side is quite complicated and I couldn’t take good pictures of the components position as several got stuck on the plate by lubricants as I lifted it so I never saw where they were supposed to be. 
    • I have one, but I don’t have the hex wrench to remove the stems. Does anyone know where I could get these in USA? Thanks in advance for any advice kind people! 
×
×
  • Create New...