Accutron 2182 Index/pawl Fingers Are Dirty

[jukkaorn]

Hello, I am new at this forum, and I have a question right at start.

I have got an accutron for a year, and I looked into it with a microscope first time (only with loupe earlier).

I found out that fingers are dirty, looks like oxidation. I put photo of them.

Is it possible to clean them without disassembling the movement?

I have read that someone has applied naphta to the index wheel while running...

Thanks in advance for help!

BR Jukka

[jukkaorn]

Didn't know how to use photo upload... hope I now succeed

[swordfish]

I don't recognize the part in the photo. What part is that? Can you upload a less magnified photo so that we can see this section in context? Most importantly, is the watch running?

[jukkaorn]

These photos are not from the dirty watch but from my other accutrons. The one with dirty fingers is running very well actually. Losing one minute in six weeks, pretty good for a 43 years old watch I think !

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[lowcountry]

I have never been able to clean them with disassembling the movement. Have to be very careful as the jewel will break off very easy. Also the finger is easy to bend as well.

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[swordfish]

Losing one minute in six weeks?  My recommendation is to close the case, strap it on your wrist, and enjoy it.  I invoke my medical training here.  I wouldn't recommend a high-risk operation on an old patient who had no more than a trivial disability.  The applicable motto here is "Better is the enemy of good enough."

 

--Eric

[lowcountry]

Sorry typo these phones type what ever " should be without disassembling the movement"

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[jukkaorn]

Thanks both for your advice. I'm not concerned about the accuracy, I'm actually very pleased to it, I'm only concerned if it will make some harm to the movement that the fingers are that dirty.

 

I think it looks like brass oxidation as it is green.... could it be that the watch has been sitting for a very long time, and the index wheel toothed surface has been oxidised? When the new battery has been put to the watch and it has started, the jewels have "brushed" the oxidation away, and it has remained to the jewels?

 

I have cleaned mechanical watches, and I'm not afraid to disassemble the gear train of the Accutron, but I'm not sure if I'm capable to handle the indexing mechanism.... And here in Finland is just a few watchmakers who even knows what a tuning fork watch is and those watchmakers has started on 70's, younger ones haven't even heard about them  :rolleyes: .

 

If it is safe to just let it run, I will keep it as it has been until now.

 

If the mechanism is stiff, it will drain the battery quicker, right ? It should run with AG10 battery for approximately 11 months, am I right ?

 

Thanks for your opinions, very appreciated ! It is no use to trying to discuss about technical matters at Finnish FB-groups, people is just bragging about how expensive watches and cars they have .....

[bobm12]

Hi Jukka,

 

I'm not exactly recommending this:

 

 

But I used it in a cheapo Citizen movement that was loosing time and it is working well now. Just make sure, if you ever decide to use it, to spray it only on the movement, i.e. remove hands, dial, battery, etc and take the movement out and aside to spray. It will avoid disassembling it and possible damage by manipulation....I can't guarantee anything just that I used it and it worked. Maybe you can try it on a less valuable watch first.

 

All that said, I wonder what I need to do if I were to lube the watch after said application...which I never did with the Citizen.

 

Cheers,

 

Bpb

[lowcountry]

The "crud" appears to be from the brass index wheel, appears to have had moisture. The index jewels can be cleaned with gently rubbing with rodico. I also take the index wheel and roll it through rodico to clean it. Last resort would be to take the tip of a xacto knife and very very gently clean it. The movement should be disassembled and cleaned due to the moisture possibility.

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[bobm12]

I was thinking a bout pegging the jewels if/when disassembled....IMHO, wood works and is widely used, I wouldn't put any metal to the jewels though.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[lowcountry]

That would work as well I think rodico would be best

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[jukkaorn]

Thanks for your advice. I haven't seen the quartz quick clean before. It could be handy in some cases. Anyway, I think I'm too afraid to test it with accutron. It will probably flush away all oil from jewels (if there is any left...) and I'm very concerned about coils not to ruin them. I think too that disassembling would be the only right method to clean the movement, but probably its best not to do it myself. I don't have for example stereo microscope for adjusting indexing mechanism...

[lowcountry]

If you decide to try the cleaning and run into a problem let me know I will be glad to assist you. Good luck.

[bobm12]

 

Anyway, I think I'm too afraid to test it with accutron. It will probably flush away all oil from jewels (if there is any left...) and I'm very concerned about coils not to ruin them

You are absolutely right, the oil may be thinned or completely dissolved by the spray (or so is my concern too). I'm just hoping that there is some oily component that prevents the complete loss of lubricant...again, just hoping. As far as the electronic components including coils, it should not harm them at all...otherwise, why advertise it as "quartz movement cleaner"! But again, who knows...My thoughts too, it is to send the watch to an accutron expert. In any case, I wish you much success whatever you decide to do!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Alastair]

Ive read on an American Forum by someone who worked there, that the engineers at Bulova used to use a VERY fine paint-brush and with hairspring-solvent cleaner--prob Trichloroethylene, run the movement on a high voltage--prob 2V-- and then while running, apply the brush and cleaner to the running index-wheel.

This was done to clean the wheel apparently, After the watch was serviced/repaired.......

To do this you would need a suitable power-supply, the std battery would probably not be enough to keep things running with the added load of a brush on the wheel.

IF however, there's That amount of crud on the fingers, a full service would be strongly recommended, Pivots are probably bone-dry and will not show up as in-accuracies or poor timekeeping--

Do NOT Ultrasonic the Index or Pawl Jewels, and avoid like the plague Ammonia/water based cleaners or the jewels fall off,  clean them in Solvent cleaner/Naptha with fine artists brush and check they are clean with microscope. Dont ultrasonic the fork either without the finger attached, or it could reduce/remove the magnetism

Oh--And Never ever touch the Edge of the index-wheel with Anything metal if you can possibly avoid it, Pick it up etc by the shaft or pinion only. The Beryllium-Copper Index-wheel is very easily damaged, which you cannot see....

Personally I dislike stripping/rebuilding the 218, Reassembly is a pain as the wheels just either go back in first time--Or you're messing round trying to get everything lined up and in the jewels for an hour!

[ramrod]

good advice. never touch it with anything metallic.

i am in the same boat as i have several 218s that need servicing. i am waiting to get a bulove microloupe to service them.

i am surprised that it runs so well with that much crud on those jewels.

you could also do a google search for the 218 manual to check bulova's recommendations for cleaning. i have one around here if i can find it.

[Alastair]

Well, I can save you the cost of an almost unobtainium tool there!

This microscope from thebay-- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141907893164?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Is cheap Chinese Crap--But Works Tremendously well! You'll need to remove about 2.5mm from the clear plastic shroud on the front, it can then be rested on the movement plate and focus on the wheel and clicks.

They then look like two house-bricks on a circular saw blade! Its the best £5 ive spent in years--You can just see the teeth too! Counting the jewel/tooth drop-off is a doddle with it.

Used it today on the ESA 9164 tuning-fork to set them up, brilliant!

 

 

[JohnR725]

The jewels of the index finger are only sort of dirty. If what you are seeing was on the active surface the watch wouldn't run at all. The system tends to be self-cleaning anything on the surface of the index wheel is usually pushed to the edge of the jewels. But I don't recall ever seeing this quantity of whatever it is on the end of the fingers. I suspect if you look carefully you'll find zero lubrication in any of the jewels an indication that the watch hasn't been serviced in a incredibly long time.

Then I would really strongly suggest reading the service manual before servicing this watch. Parts aren't readily available and there's lots of places where bad things can happen No matter how careful you are.

http://www.yeagley.net/Accutron/Accutron 218 service manual.pdf

 

 

[JohnR725]

On 7/17/2016 at 6:36 AM, Alastair said:

Do NOT Ultrasonic the Index or Pawl Jewels, and avoid like the plague Ammonia/water based cleaners or the jewels fall off,  clean them in Solvent cleaner/Naptha with fine artists brush and check they are clean with microscope. Dont ultrasonic the fork either without the finger attached, or it could reduce/remove the magnetism

I'm curious about the ultrasonic cleaning problem? The reason I'm curious is most if not all watchmakers usually use ultrasonic for cleaning. Then the Ammonia/water cleaner is that different than the ammonia/solvent cleaner? Another reason not to clean a tuning fork is it will pick up all the magnetic particles floating around in your cleaning solution.

[Alastair]

Well--Why take the risk? The jewels are stuck with glue and can possibly be disrupted by ultrasonics.

Ive personal experience of jewel-loss using ultrasonics and ammonia based cleaners. In the ESA manual it clearly states 'Do Not Use Alkaline based cleaners' on the clicks (fingers)  Allegedly, Bulova supplied these jewels and fingers to ESA who call them 'Clicks' so would be fixed by same means....

Ammonia is alkaline in its nature....

Easy enough to clean these jewels with a Very fine brush and say naptha solvent, which is what I use for them.

As to the 218, Providing you follow the correct Disassembly procedure as in the Manual all should be OK. If not, you could lose a finger! (Pawl-Finger!)

These are not complicated movements--But do have their own perculiarities. Getting the train-wheels back into the jewels without touching the Index --Is Fun!

Parts are not a problem--Loads on ebay...