Ultrasonic Cleaners

[RyanGreerMcGilloway]

What do you mean by IPA and it costing 5 cents a cycle 

[jdm]

26 minutes ago, RyanGreerMcGilloway said:

What do you mean by IPA and it costing 5 cents a cycle 

Have a read on our pinned topic to learn about that and much more. 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by jdm

[rodabod]

I would like to revise my advice in terms of buying ultrasonic cleaners, and specifically Chinese ones:

If you are planning on using them long-term, then get a European or USA-made model. 
 

I’ve been through four Chinese models now at a cost of around £160. I limited use to 5 minutes at a time to avoid overheating and always kept the tank suitably filled. But the last one started pouring horrible smoke out the side. 
 

The British-made units last for years (eg. Walker) and will be more cost-effective long term. 

[jdm]

1 minute ago, rodabod said:

I would like to revise my advice in terms of buying ultrasonic cleaners, and specifically Chinese ones:
If you are planning on using them long-term, then get a European or USA-made model. 
I’ve been through four Chinese models now at a cost of around £160. I limited use to 5 minutes at a time to avoid overheating and always kept the tank suitably filled. But the last one started pouring horrible smoke out the side. 
The British-made units last for years (eg. Walker) and will be more cost-effective long term. 

Yeah mine blew also. As I wrote many times, I do not miss having one, I get the same "cleanliness" anyway for both internal and external watch parts.

[Etur]

Hello all,  Chinese ultrasonic can be handy if used in certain way...

https://youtu.be/J4mHURqXy0M

I have upgraded one of my vintage L&R Master cleaner with oscillation and ultrasonic

[captainneek]

Hi, I'm thinking of buying an ultrasonic cleaner(which I know nothing about), up till now I've used the traditional  three jar method.....question, how do you guys dry the parts when they come out of the cleaner ?

Thanks, Mike

[Nucejoe]

I rinse in lighter fluid and isopropinal immediately after clean. 

 Balance and fork pivots/jewels get pegged with a toothpick dipped in lighter fluid, balance complete a dip in lighter fluid and blowdry with warm air.

Avgas, paint thinner for clean.

[watchweasol]

Usually rinse in IPA  and dry under a lamp for a min or two

[JohnR725]

Like almost everything else in this group we've discussed this before. So I have a link all kinds of ideas and I swiped a picture out of the link to post here.

I'm using commercial watch cleaning fluids but the rinse doesn't like to dry even with a source of hot moving air. Then and you'll discover that when you go through the link I'm not using a commercial cleaning machine. One of my acquaintances recommended alcohol   which is what I'm using I'm just not using the safe alcohol. Even though the alcohol I have will dissolves shellac I just dip it in for a few seconds and then immediately into the dryer and I've never had problems.

The dryer I'm using is a hairdryer or at least that's what it's supposed to be for. The original one I had didn't get as hot as the current one. This one gets really really hot. Then I get obsessed with another or a better idea for a dryer than just leaving the parts on the newspaper and blowing air across so as you can see I modified a coffee can. The parts are raised up on the screen sometimes I'll put something on top block off most of the air and the hairdryer blows in.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/285-ultrasonic-cleaners/

[Orologi67]

I bought a refurbished Bulova Watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner.  It comes with a heated, spinning dryer with fan.  

This man in new jersey sells them.  I dont know where you are in the world though

http://www.timemachinerepair.com/refurbished-for-sale.html

[captainneek]

Great info , very helpful.

Thanks and Happy Holidays to one and all.

Stay safe, Mike

[InTempore]

Good morning/afternoon/evening wherever you are in the world.

 

I am looking at purchasing my first ultrasonic cleaner for watch parts. Although I may only be using it once a week for now I plan to use it more often in the future and want it to last. For this reason I have neglected looking at Chinese alternatives, if you believe I am wrong for doing so please guide me in the right direction. Are heated cleaners also the better option?

 

I was going to order this 3L Durston but 1) it is out of stock and 2) I believe it is too large for my requirements...

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/durston-pro-line-commercial-use

 

My other and newly found option is this 1.5L Ultrawave. 

https://shop.ultrawave.co.uk/collections/u-series/products/u100-u100h-ultrasonic-cleaning-bath?variant=31324460318831

 

If anyone has used either of these and can shed some light on their reliability and effectiveness or can suggest another product to suit my needs please let me know!

 

Hope everyone is well 

[jdm]

1 hour ago, InTempore said:

https://shop.ultrawave.co.uk/collections/u-series/products/u100-u100h-ultrasonic-cleaning-bath?variant=31324460318831

That is an hugely inflated price for a device of that class. You should look at the Chinese ones, there is no reason why they should not last if not abused. 

[Xilikon]

I agree, don't dismiss chinese units. Most often, it will break if abused and my trick is to make sure to allow cooldown time between uses and don't run for more than 20 mins. It served me very well and I'm also using it from time to time.

For professional watchmakers doing it daily, it's better to buy better ones like Elma as it's built to stand abuse.

[HectorLooi]

I've been using and abusing ultrasonic cleaners for more than 30 years. I've also repaired many units for friends. I've encountered brands like Elma and L&R Quantrex, and unbranded ones like Chinese brands and Italian made ones.

The biggest problem I see with ALL brands is fluid infiltration. Ultrasonic cleaning solutions have a strange property of surface creep. It has very low surface tension and pulls itself along any surface. It is designed to penetrate nook and crannies. You can imagine what it does if it gets inside the machine. In my dental profession, we fill the whole tank with cleaning solution and pour it out after use. Any drips down the sides have to be cleaned up straight away. 

The next problem I see is overheating. Some units have very small fans to cool the inside electronic components. If the fan fails or if it get clogged with dust, the unit will overheat and burn.

Another common problem is timer failure. Electronic timers seem to be less reliable. Mechanical timers do fail too. But that's in our realm as watchmakers! 

I've been using a Chinese unit for the past 5 years. The mechanical timer failed once which was solved by rebushing it.

So would I recommend using a Chinese unit? Definitely! 

[InTempore]

Thanks all for your replies, seems you've saved me a lot of money 

 

I will look into some of the Chinese alternatives then! Thanks for your help

[MechanicMike]

On 12/13/2020 at 5:54 PM, Orologi67 said:

I bought a refurbished Bulova Watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner.  It comes with a heated, spinning dryer with fan.  

This man in new jersey sells them.  I dont know where you are in the world though

http://www.timemachinerepair.com/refurbished-for-sale.html

Thanks for the tip

 

[Imparatus]

Hi,

Looking into purchasing some sort of cleaner for my foray into horology, and I'm seeing conflicting opinions on the safety of using Ultrasonics on watch parts at all. Many posts on the net from folks in schools, or who are professional watchmakers, urging others not to use ultrasonic cleaners at any time, or risk stripping the plating (Nickel, gold, what have you) from the parts themselves. They note that parts that have been cleaned in ultrasonics in the past have a high risk of plating loss, and suggest that they would never use anything but a watch cleaning machine.

Given that even non-functional machines are running at $200-$300 on ebay, and that I really don't think my watch-repairing hobby (and my wallet) will support the purchase of a new machine, I'd love to use an ultrasonic, but don't want to destroy the plating on any of my movement parts. Not that I'll be cleaning and reassembling $30,000 Rolexes, but you understand what I mean. I'm actually interested in all of your much more experienced takes on the Ultrasonic vs Watch cleaning machine debate.

Imp

[jdm]

7 hours ago, Imparatus said:

They note that parts that have been cleaned in ultrasonics in the past have a high risk of plating loss, and suggest that they would never use anything but a watch cleaning machine.

That is a unfounded believing, damage to plating can be caused by an aggressive cleaning solution and/or excessive bath times, but not U/S. In fact all makers of watch cleaning machines introduced U/S starting 50 years ago, and you can see it routinely being used by professional.
Anyway, a mov.t plating or other parts rarely need U/S action to be cleaned to perfection. If you watn to return brightness to a plated mov.t use a mild ammonia solution for a short time. The U/S is rather more useful to clean filthy cases and bracelets, although hot wather, dish sopan and brush get to the same final result. 

 

Quote

Given that even non-functional machines are running at $200-$300 on ebay,

Read few postings before your, is no need to spend that kind of money, a 1.5L Chinese unit with heather can cost between $50 and 100. You can also pesn $20 for a mini unity, even if it wont last long you won't have lost much.
That being said of the many tools needed in  watchmaking a cleaning machine is not one of the first needed. Before, you need proper solutions, a  timegrapher, a good bench opener, a pressure tester perhaps, etc.

[HectorLooi]

I think moderation is the key to everything. 

I've seen crazy people in the dental industry misread the instructions on dual purpose cleaners (clean and disinfect) as needing to ultrasound instruments for 30 minutes to clean our dental instruments after use. The manufacturer actually mean soaking for 30 minutes but ultrasound for 5 minutes only.

I had to condemn many such misused ultrasound units because the bottom of the tanks actually developed holes. (30 minutes after every patient means that the ultrasound is practically on the whole day)

If you think an ultrasound is harmless, I beg to differ. Just take a piece of aluminium foil, make it the heavy duty type even, and ultrasound it for just ONE minute. Then go and count how many holes there are in your piece of foil.

If you take an even closer look, a rectangular or square tank can form standing waves, just like sound wave in a room. You'll get nodes and antinodes of sound energy. An object at a node will get blasted with a lot of energy while those in an antinode will not be cleaned properly. That's why horological grade ultrasound cleaners have baskets that revolve while cleaning to prevent nodal damage. And high end industrial ultrasonic cleaners have sweep frequency generators to prevent standing waves.

My advice for using low end ultrasonic cleaners is to allow a 5 minute pre-soak, then ultrasound for no more than 4 minutes, and rotate the glass beaker constantly. 

Am I OCD? Yes I am. 

[Imparatus]

I am OCD as well. Attention to detail is fairly important in my day job. My thought was to soak the parts in small glass jars of appropriate solutions as directed or recommended, and then add a short stint in the US cleaner with, as you say, agitation and rotation of the beaker as you noted.

For my hobbyist pursuits, I don't think it's reasonable at this point to spend a ton of money on an L&R or Elma Super Elite.

Thanks for the replies!

Imp

[oldhippy]

Going off subject. Have you watched Kalle’s video on Ultrasonic cleaners? Many on here need to change how they clean watch movements.

[clockboy]

Yes I have and I have always been very cautious with what I use the ultra for. However I also subscribe to Richard Perrett who repairs/ services high end watches and yet he uses an a ultra sonic cleaner. Not sure if he puts the hairspring through it. 

[nickelsilver]

Is Kalle saying not to clean watch parts in that type of (powerful) ultrasonic, or not to clean them with ultrasonic at all? All high end professional watch cleaning machines have been ultrasonic, with or without agitation, since the '60s. I've have never, ever, had an issue from ultrasonic on watch parts.

[Paul80]

Or after watch Kalle's video do you just stop cleaning watches in the US cleaner if they are made from thin Aluminium sheet

Paul