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Snagged a job lot of tools, and more than a few mysteries. First is a tin of what looks like chopped up cork, and the second is a jar of white powder. Any ideas?

Is it old shellac?

PXL_20231129_131638965.thumb.jpg.8df6b85ce01577afd90826e2323ce2d4.jpg

PXL_20231129_131657416.thumb.jpg.d1f40abd5047acb4d67c6f3d4661d168.jpg

OK no idea what this is, it doesn't react to UV, and is very fine powder

PXL_20231129_131844376.thumb.jpg.e31b10015ceae128f85efaaf38bd954d.jpg

PXL_20231129_131856569.thumb.jpg.e10494bb3ef8de374486cd42cd8cdfad.jpg

The below is for shellac application but what specifically?PXL_20231129_131948557.thumb.jpg.f7cc2b6b76cdd8e6ff80ba675da01892.jpg

PXL_20231129_132002035.thumb.jpg.291f4cee23c4beb8cbf2379baafc5b6c.jpg

PXL_20231129_132008798.thumb.jpg.bf1a77878c2143e034143a3ecfb079cc.jpg

lots more to follow!

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White powder I don’t know- radium lume?

The first bit of kit looks like the chips and wand for bluing screws and hands and such. what hold and control the heat perhaps…wand for holding over the flame

How about borax flux for the powder?

Edited by rehajm
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My guesses..

1. wood chips for drying parts in after the final rinse. A bit of an archaic practice these days.

2. could be French chalk for brushing cleaned clock plates with....  or maybe diamantine powder for polishing.... could also be oilstone powder, also for polishing, although the stuff that I have got is slightly greyish.

3. Blueing pan. Fill it with brass chips, place item to be blued on the chips and hold the pan over a spirit burner.

4. & 5. Pallet warmer for softening the shellac in order to adjust the pallet stones.

Edited by Marc
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1 hour ago, Waggy said:

Snagged a job lot of tools, and more than a few mysteries. First is a tin of what looks like chopped up cork, and the second is a jar of white powder. Any ideas?

Is it old shellac?

PXL_20231129_131638965.thumb.jpg.8df6b85ce01577afd90826e2323ce2d4.jpg

PXL_20231129_131657416.thumb.jpg.d1f40abd5047acb4d67c6f3d4661d168.jpg

OK no idea what this is, it doesn't react to UV, and is very fine powder

PXL_20231129_131844376.thumb.jpg.e31b10015ceae128f85efaaf38bd954d.jpg

PXL_20231129_131856569.thumb.jpg.e10494bb3ef8de374486cd42cd8cdfad.jpg

The below is for shellac application but what specifically?PXL_20231129_131948557.thumb.jpg.f7cc2b6b76cdd8e6ff80ba675da01892.jpg

PXL_20231129_132002035.thumb.jpg.291f4cee23c4beb8cbf2379baafc5b6c.jpg

PXL_20231129_132008798.thumb.jpg.bf1a77878c2143e034143a3ecfb079cc.jpg

lots more to follow!

Just be careful with that white powder, no laying it out in straight lines. Diamantine powder ? Talc for brass ? Dab a bit on some sensitive bits after you've had a shower.

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6 hours ago, Waggy said:

Snagged a job lot of tools, and more than a few mysteries. First is a tin of what looks like chopped up cork, and the second is a jar of white powder. Any ideas?

Is it old shellac?

PXL_20231129_131638965.thumb.jpg.8df6b85ce01577afd90826e2323ce2d4.jpg

PXL_20231129_131657416.thumb.jpg.d1f40abd5047acb4d67c6f3d4661d168.jpg

OK no idea what this is, it doesn't react to UV, and is very fine powder

PXL_20231129_131844376.thumb.jpg.e31b10015ceae128f85efaaf38bd954d.jpg

PXL_20231129_131856569.thumb.jpg.e10494bb3ef8de374486cd42cd8cdfad.jpg

The below is for shellac application but what specifically?PXL_20231129_131948557.thumb.jpg.f7cc2b6b76cdd8e6ff80ba675da01892.jpg

PXL_20231129_132002035.thumb.jpg.291f4cee23c4beb8cbf2379baafc5b6c.jpg

PXL_20231129_132008798.thumb.jpg.bf1a77878c2143e034143a3ecfb079cc.jpg

lots more to follow!

Add a drop of oil to a small amount of the powder, mix to a paste, see if it will polish the handle of a pair of tweezers. 

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13 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

The white powder is cocaine, for when a repair is stressing you out.  Hehe.  As for the rest, no idea

It's something you mix into your lubrication it helps to lubricate things much better. Just let me know how shiny the pivots look after a few years

9 hours ago, oldhippy said:

White power I would say diamantine powder

A classic polishing compound usually came in several grit sizes if you would call it that they all look like white powder. Typically would be mixed with some oil used to polish your pivots. Not used anymore other than a novelty in your bench.

13 hours ago, Marc said:

1. wood chips for drying parts in after the final rinse. A bit of an archaic practice these days.

Even in my day the only time people are using wood chips were well in school at least one of the schools the rumor was if you didn't do things right it would go into the sawdust box. Then you get to start over again.  That would also explain why there are holes in the lid of the can to allow the vapors of the solvent-based products to eventually escape. 

 

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2 hours ago, Waggy said:

Can anyone explain or point me in the right direction to understand how to use the below, thanks.

They also come in slightly different shapes like this one resembles the one that I use

image.png.8686242e9ea1377ec946324348f3c35b.png

Unfortunately I don't have a good picture of it in use so you'll have to use your imagination and hopefully word this correctly. First you turn your pallet fork upside down like in this image

image.png.ee8b3aadf5abe049cdcc8f19d59f9c9e.png

Now is where you have to use your imagination. Slide the black locking ring back to release the part that holds the pallet fork in place. Grab the pallet fork in the image above movement up and drop it onto the tool. You want the pallet stones facing outward. Then when you slide the ring forward you'll see the slot on the locking part will come down onto the pallet fork arbor holding the pallet fork in place. Now you can take the alcohol amp preferred and heat up the pallet fork on each side so you can play with your shellac.

 

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@JohnR725 got it thanks.

16 hours ago, rehajm said:

White powder I don’t know- radium lume?

I thought about this, but doesn't react to my UV light and isn't radioactive (I have a radiation monitor) - I think the consensus is that it's some kind of polishing compound, which makes sense.

 

I'll post more crazy tools from the job lot tonight 🙂

 

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3 hours ago, Waggy said:

isn't radioactive (I have a radiation monitor)

You probably don't really want the radiation detector. Ill just cause undue stress especially if you start acquiring a vintage stuff. Somewhere but it's hiding in the attic I believe in a metal box I have an actual kit for reapplying your radium luminescence material. But then I also have some of the wax stuff that they used to sell.  used to have is really little tiny tins that had wax with the luminescence material dissolved in seed heated up and put it underneath the hand in to fill in the hand and that's what the Steelers. I was never really impressed with it. But I discovered with my Geiger counter that some of the ones I have actually have radium in their which has really surprised about because but the radium was supposed to be phased out by? On the other hand I have a whole bunch of cards that have radium hands even without the Geiger counter you can tell because if you push the hand decide you can see the burnt paper from the radium. So do I get really excited to get some military hands are dials then you monitor gets very excited

Here's what the powder we think it is it's available from cousins

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/diamantine-bergeon

 

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8 hours ago, Waggy said:

Can anyone explain or point me in the right direction to understand how to use the below, thanks.

PXL_20231129_132002035.thumb.jpg.291f4cee23c4beb8cbf2379baafc5b6c.jpgPXL_20231129_132008798.thumb.jpg.bf1a77878c2143e034143a3ecfb079cc.jpg

Pallet stone adjuster. Lever fits into the slot of the 2 brass wings, then a pusher to move them in and out i guess while you hold the lever ? It looks like for big pocket watch levers ? I think i would want to do the stones one at a time. The other is a handle, it attaches to a box as it is here, it enables the user to pick up the box and carry it around with the use of just one of his hands. 🤣 sorry i couldnt resist, it was just begging for it .

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
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Next instalment of strange stuff:

This thing has a spring loaded collar and the which moves the 4 'teeth' back when you pull it back

From the side:

PXL_20231130_133012959.thumb.jpg.e3c554a7813aabd5d569f5e5cfbcbf73.jpg

PXL_20231130_133029224.thumb.jpg.c47759646612c007b6cb3ea9de06d244.jpg

Front on:

PXL_20231130_133036318.thumb.jpg.ab1c55abd04baa338950c5c0982c7fd5.jpg

PXL_20231130_133041194.thumb.jpg.8c66985b5b231f635080712be7d773ed.jpg

There were also three of these things floating around:

PXL_20231130_133059756.thumb.jpg.d82832512c790fdfb5dac6694950dce4.jpgPXL_20231130_133105615.thumb.jpg.f2ae18ab57d6a5a7117de1fb70e102e6.jpg

Not sure what these are, they seem to be made of brass or similar

PXL_20231130_133129690.thumb.jpg.67cce58f333e965632bdb6f6d4891fd7.jpg

This seems to be steel:

PXL_20231130_133141207.thumb.jpg.670103303308109cf521efc5b3a7c7a2.jpg

This one is also steel, and has square ends (side view):

PXL_20231130_133208227.thumb.jpg.6c1739812430b22f5650e0baa6d958b1.jpg

End on:

PXL_20231130_133218372.thumb.jpg.c1ffd6786025b6ce8c5883802273eee5.jpg

This is pointed at the bottom, maybe some kind of punch?

PXL_20231130_133229369.thumb.jpg.1ac519b376ca29f43dbc5686a7e23148.jpg

This one is like a very large oiler, and filed to an angle at the end:

PXL_20231130_133237599.thumb.jpg.8f9a8074818d81886143a2f1b19924c7.jpg

Close up of the end

PXL_20231130_133250662.thumb.jpg.169b83759ef8f36a7667bf7ca0e64d7d.jpg

I think this is a tool for adjusting wheels back into true?

PXL_20231130_133302172.thumb.jpg.a989998d73a90a8519707f2b5c127784.jpg

I thought this may be a screwdriver sharpener, but the angles are all wrong

PXL_20231130_133409007.thumb.jpg.469488f41883145716fedba583b7f383.jpg

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Also in the box was the following:

A 4 sided movement holder (currently refurbishing)

PXL_20231130_132911617.thumb.jpg.d2a899786e77836337ad58490204bd65.jpgPXL_20231130_132920934.thumb.jpg.7250ef454a0a92f60108c413e330df06.jpg

Very old canon pinion tool - in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?

PXL_20231130_132945598.thumb.jpg.fc9294c78a8bce871ad6adfbe8ddb40d.jpg

Pretty sure this is a dial foot dressing tool, again I am in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?:

PXL_20231130_133349196.thumb.jpg.2f913e7820f161b134be0655b60ff46e.jpgPXL_20231130_133339885.thumb.jpg.d00ac0bc970855c9ac4c9557ebf7c7c3.jpg

And there were 2 of these, I think the silver one is for truing balance wheels, but not 100% sure about the brass one

PXL_20231130_133319772.thumb.jpg.0cf434bca27c7f291ee0244e86b5a2b9.jpg

PXL_20231130_133330836.thumb.jpg.258e4b36ce837ca5203f89e4eef3d10c.jpg

 

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8 minutes ago, Waggy said:

Also in the box was the following:

A 4 sided movement holder (currently refurbishing)

PXL_20231130_132911617.thumb.jpg.d2a899786e77836337ad58490204bd65.jpgPXL_20231130_132920934.thumb.jpg.7250ef454a0a92f60108c413e330df06.jpg

Very old canon pinion tool - in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?

PXL_20231130_132945598.thumb.jpg.fc9294c78a8bce871ad6adfbe8ddb40d.jpg

Pretty sure this is a dial foot dressing tool, again I am in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?:

PXL_20231130_133349196.thumb.jpg.2f913e7820f161b134be0655b60ff46e.jpgPXL_20231130_133339885.thumb.jpg.d00ac0bc970855c9ac4c9557ebf7c7c3.jpg

And there were 2 of these, I think the silver one is for truing balance wheels, but not 100% sure about the brass one

PXL_20231130_133319772.thumb.jpg.0cf434bca27c7f291ee0244e86b5a2b9.jpg

PXL_20231130_133330836.thumb.jpg.258e4b36ce837ca5203f89e4eef3d10c.jpg

 

Truing and poising calipers, looks like the brass ones have the nibs missing.

10 minutes ago, Waggy said:

Also in the box was the following:

A 4 sided movement holder (currently refurbishing)

PXL_20231130_132911617.thumb.jpg.d2a899786e77836337ad58490204bd65.jpgPXL_20231130_132920934.thumb.jpg.7250ef454a0a92f60108c413e330df06.jpg

Very old canon pinion tool - in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?

PXL_20231130_132945598.thumb.jpg.fc9294c78a8bce871ad6adfbe8ddb40d.jpg

Pretty sure this is a dial foot dressing tool, again I am in 2 minds if I should polish it up or leave it all retro?:

PXL_20231130_133349196.thumb.jpg.2f913e7820f161b134be0655b60ff46e.jpgPXL_20231130_133339885.thumb.jpg.d00ac0bc970855c9ac4c9557ebf7c7c3.jpg

And there were 2 of these, I think the silver one is for truing balance wheels, but not 100% sure about the brass one

PXL_20231130_133319772.thumb.jpg.0cf434bca27c7f291ee0244e86b5a2b9.jpg

PXL_20231130_133330836.thumb.jpg.258e4b36ce837ca5203f89e4eef3d10c.jpg

 

Why do you think its for trimming dial feet and not just a pin vice ?

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23 minutes ago, Waggy said:

Could be, will try and get a better picture, maybe wishful thinking?

I'd have thought the bottom of jaws would have a cutting edge to remove excess solder. Bergeon do make a tool for that, make a comparison, our @JohnR725 here suggests using a pin vice for the same proceedure, i seem to remember that is what he uses.  Haha you notice i hang on every word that John delivers, dont panic J I'm not a stalker 🤣

3 hours ago, Waggy said:

Next instalment of strange stuff:

This thing has a spring loaded collar and the which moves the 4 'teeth' back when you pull it back

From the side:

PXL_20231130_133012959.thumb.jpg.e3c554a7813aabd5d569f5e5cfbcbf73.jpg

PXL_20231130_133029224.thumb.jpg.c47759646612c007b6cb3ea9de06d244.jpg

Front on:

PXL_20231130_133036318.thumb.jpg.ab1c55abd04baa338950c5c0982c7fd5.jpg

PXL_20231130_133041194.thumb.jpg.8c66985b5b231f635080712be7d773ed.jpg

There were also three of these things floating around:

PXL_20231130_133059756.thumb.jpg.d82832512c790fdfb5dac6694950dce4.jpgPXL_20231130_133105615.thumb.jpg.f2ae18ab57d6a5a7117de1fb70e102e6.jpg

Not sure what these are, they seem to be made of brass or similar

PXL_20231130_133129690.thumb.jpg.67cce58f333e965632bdb6f6d4891fd7.jpg

This seems to be steel:

PXL_20231130_133141207.thumb.jpg.670103303308109cf521efc5b3a7c7a2.jpg

This one is also steel, and has square ends (side view):

PXL_20231130_133208227.thumb.jpg.6c1739812430b22f5650e0baa6d958b1.jpg

End on:

PXL_20231130_133218372.thumb.jpg.c1ffd6786025b6ce8c5883802273eee5.jpg

This is pointed at the bottom, maybe some kind of punch?

PXL_20231130_133229369.thumb.jpg.1ac519b376ca29f43dbc5686a7e23148.jpg

This one is like a very large oiler, and filed to an angle at the end:

PXL_20231130_133237599.thumb.jpg.8f9a8074818d81886143a2f1b19924c7.jpg

Close up of the end

PXL_20231130_133250662.thumb.jpg.169b83759ef8f36a7667bf7ca0e64d7d.jpg

I think this is a tool for adjusting wheels back into true?

PXL_20231130_133302172.thumb.jpg.a989998d73a90a8519707f2b5c127784.jpg

I thought this may be a screwdriver sharpener, but the angles are all wrong

PXL_20231130_133409007.thumb.jpg.469488f41883145716fedba583b7f383.jpg

The first pictures are adjustable mainspring winders, i have a few and quite like them. Other photos look like hand gravers for lathewoork, a graver sharpener and above that a tool used in conjunction with the truing calipers for straightening the balance wheel, the slot fits onto the rim for bending, i dont think i would use that it looks like more of a  deforming tool.

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8 hours ago, Waggy said:

And there were 2 of these, I think the silver one is for truing balance wheels, but not 100% sure about the brass one

All of them are considered truing calipers. Although sometimes the used for truly wheels not just the balance wheels. Just different styles of the same tool

Too many items I will just snipped out images so we can keep straight what I'm talking about or at least I can figure out where and talking about. This one is a mainspring a Winder you're missing the arbor part. I think I have some someplace I've never used them. Then if I remember right I think the arbor is double-sided you really get curious off to find a picture for you to show you the rest of it

image.png.b380f0915182c38f56466ae8757823d0.png

Typically these will come in a set of three. There bench keys for winding typically American pocket watches but conceivably European pocket watches that require winding out of the case. In other words in a typical American pocket watch the case has a sleeve which holds in the stamina crown when the movements removed from the case you need a way of winding and setting.

image.png.753c0319571f066ea345178426b49df4.png

I normally not used to seeing these exactly like these but my suspicion is these are used to push jewel settings out of watches. A lot of times when you see him like this is because somebody in a classroom situation made them versus purchasing them commercially. At least sometimes.

image.png.edeeb9a00b0ea1491f63d7427cf481a5.png

 

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I'd have thought the bottom of jaws would have a cutting edge to remove excess solder. Bergeon do make a tool for that, make a comparison, our @JohnR725 here suggests using a pin vice for the same proceedure, i seem to remember that is what he uses.  Haha you notice i hang on every word that John delivers, dont panic J I'm not a stalker 🤣

Now I have to watch my back somebody stalking me oh dear. I do use a specific pin device for that sort of thing because I always regarded initially as a bad pin vice because the jaws were sharp. But I found the sharp jaws quite nice at reducing the diameter of things were for cleaning up things.

So yes they do make a specific tool for that purpose but I suspect in the picture of we looked at the jaws carefully it's probably just the pin vice.

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A little bit of elbow grease and here are some of the tools cleaned up

Canon pinion tool before:

PXL_20231130_132945598.thumb.jpg.fc9294c78a8bce871ad6adfbe8ddb40d.jpg

And here it is after

PXL_20231201_075159213.thumb.jpg.8178b33ce6a6154a7fc3792042380f08.jpg

Used some of Will Kirk's (Repair Shop) cleaning solution to clean the dirt and old varnish off the handle, then made some shellac to protect it, finally some of my home made beeswax polish. Cleaned the parts up in dish detergent, then IPA to remove any water, naphtha to remove any grease and a quick visit to the buffing machine and some Brasso, another full clean and then oil/grease and reassemble.

This is the pin vice before:

PXL_20231130_133339885.thumb.jpg.d00ac0bc970855c9ac4c9557ebf7c7c3.jpg

And here it is now:

PXL_20231201_075231517.thumb.jpg.a3cc925e1b5a66fdb8233b9c1f3fec9b.jpg

Similar treatment to the pinion tool above

And here is the  brass truing and poising caliper before

PXL_20231130_133330836.thumb.jpg.258e4b36ce837ca5203f89e4eef3d10c.jpg

And after

PXL_20231201_075216270.thumb.jpg.d07d0bfd0584effa713f3f2cd34caa1f.jpg

Didn't to too crazy with this, just some Brasso and some 3-in-1 oil on the hinge

I also worked on the 4 sided movement holder:

PXL_20231130_132911617.thumb.jpg.d2a899786e77836337ad58490204bd65.jpgPXL_20231130_132920934.thumb.jpg.7250ef454a0a92f60108c413e330df06.jpg

After I cleaned it up I found some blue paint, so thought what the heck:

PXL_20231201_082429916.thumb.jpg.f403770a1658f14332e9732ccae49f1a.jpg

Edited by Waggy
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    • OK, in You case You will assemble the movement with the line attached to the barrel and fusee and will  wind the line  entirely on the barrel after that. It is important when replacing the line to know the correct lenght of the line. The rule is that when line wound on the fudsee entirely, about 1/4 turn still to remain on the barrel. Yes, no tension. The ratchet is not placed yet, the spring in the barrel is complitelly unwound. At the end of the step the fusee is empty and the line is attached to it and strained perpendiculary to it, not on tangent. The escape wheel. Use whatever that will not damage anything. Yes, this is typing mistake, sorry. The word 'pendulum' here is not correct, You should use 'anchor' and yes, it is removed from the movement at this point, according my instruction 1 (Ihave used the word 'lever' there):   Ok, let sey the barrel arbour makes 6 full turns when winding the spring in the barrel from unwound to fully wound state of the spring. Let sey that the barrel makes 4.5 full turns when winding the clock from fully unwound (the line is on the barrel) to fully wound (the line is on the fusee) state. This means that You should not wind the spring in the barlel when adjusting the initial tension to more than 1.5 turns of the arbour of the barrel.  If You make 2 full turns, then when winding the clock, the barrel will be able to turn to only 4 turns, so the limiting device will not limit the rotation of the fusee arbour and You will be able to force the line much more than when the limiting device acts, also the power reserve will be less. Hope this is clear now... Yes, but again - not the pendulum, but the anchour.   About the loosing time... In this kind of escapement, the frequency pritty much depends on the torque. The higher torque - the highrer frequency. This is because this escapement forces the pendulum to oscillate significantly faster than it's own resonant fequency. The frequency depends on the 'depth' of the escapement too - the deeper escapement is, the lower the frequency, and the higher amplitude of pendulum oscillations. The heavier the pendulum is, the harder to the movement (the escapement torque) to force the pendulum to oscillate faster than it's own frequency. And in the end, the own pendulum frequency depends only on the pendulum lenght and a little on the suspension spring 'strenght' This are all the relations between all the factors. You can try to use the old spring (if it is not broken) and see if the clock will work faster with it. Yes, the old springs of fusee clocks sometimes give bigger torque than modern ones, no matter if they seem to be 'set' You can shorten the pendulum to achieve correct frequency. If the torque is reduced, but enough for the movement to work reliably,  then reduced torque will only lead to lessen the wear. The torque in fusee movements is more or less constant all the time, this is the function of the fusee. You can use the Clock Tuner  free app for android to adjust faster the clock rate. You will need to know the BPH of the movement, so count the teeth of the wheels and pinions and calculate the BPH
    • Hi! My bad. I meant to say that when the pallet fork is installed I cant move the wheels "using the crown in the setting position" Really in truly my number 3 was redundant and badly written (trying to explain myself went all wrong). I dismantling partially the watch (calendar, remontoir, Balance and Pallet fork). I think I would need to go that way...  Thanks for your comments...    
    • this is what happens if you don't fully do all of your research. I found the safe answer I found your exact caliber we got a mainspring number we got a price at a decent price for the original spring verified that the spring number at least on bestfit agrees with what we have so it was safe yes I did look in the GR catalog I had seen that 200 watch has a spring similar to what you perceive it should be. But to be honest I never looked at the 200 watch to see what its mainspring was. then the other amusement I went back to the bestfit online because if the 200 have the same spring I were to see that when I snipped out the image up above. Turns out they don't even show a 200 listing at all.  
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