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Another Timegrapher reading question please (big amplitude swings)


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Dear fellow WIS,

I once again struggle with the readings of my recently revised (by Lange of course) Datograph.

As witnessed by the attached screenshots, the rate and beat error are exemplary and consistent, however the amplitude, whilst always higher than 260 degrees, is not. Amplitude swung from 268 degrees to 317 degrees in a matter of 20 seconds, and this is quite a large delta. Is this something to be worried about ? As the timekeeping is otherwise perfect, should I just enjoy the watch and stop being overly obsessive, or would you send it back to Lange if you were in my shoes ?

Lift angle is correct for the Datograph (51 degrees), so this cannot be the culprit.

Would really appreciate your insights !

Thanks and best regards,


Pieter
 

 

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First of all, just to close the loop, your similar post on the NAWCC message board has already been linked to and commented on here:

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/25387-importance-of-amplitude/page/2/#elControls_220787_menu

So the best answer you will get will probably be a duplicate of something JohnR has already posted.

The most likely explanation for what you are seeing lies in the limitations of your timing machine wrt weak signals or background noise, or user error. If you can adjust the signal gain on your timing machine (less is sometimes more effective than more) try that. Make sure you are working in an environment with low backgroung noise. Try different orientations of the watch in the microphone clamp. Crown against the metal claw often gives the strongest signal. If none of that works, and you can't adjust the gain, get yourself a Weishi 1900 or even better, an all singing all dancing Witschi like the one Lange are using (and attend the training course if possible!). You obviously have the financial means!

Whatever you do, rest assured that there is nothing wrong with your watch. 💚

 

 

 

Edited by Klassiker
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On 5/25/2023 at 2:19 AM, Techniec said:

Lift angle is correct for the Datograph (51 degrees)

I see that that's a rather interesting chronograph in a big heavy case. As you have the lift angle I don't suppose you have the technical document that explains from the factory how you should be timing the watch on the timing machine? often times on watches like this the factory service bulletin will specify how to time it on your timing machine. For instance chronograph features should always be off as they generate extra noise which is not desirable. Then it looks like a relatively large heavy case that's going to be a problem.

9 hours ago, Klassiker said:

So the best answer you will get will probably be a duplicate of something JohnR has already posted.

yes as you notice I don't always use the same secret identity other places on that message board everyone was using the real name so why not. So this means I'll just summarize what I've already posted

in order for a timing machine the function it has to build a pickup a good clean signal. It doesn't matter which timing machine timing machine across couple hundred dollars or one that's approaching $10,000 like we haven't work. If you cannot get a good clean signal you will not get the results you desire.

The unfortunate downfall of most of the Chinese 1000 machines are the lack of a volume/gain adjustments. This is found on the 1900 and some 1000 machines. Also found on most witschi machines. This is something is specified in technical sheets that say use a specific timing machine and this is how you adjust it. So 1000 is not have any such adjustment that will be a problem here.

then I don't see the watch in the timing machine holder? In the case of a case stopwatch the recommendation is the crown should go out that's where the sensor is that's the best place to pick up a signal if you can pick it up at all. As I said large heavy cases are problematic or Seiko watches a lot of times are problematic as they my guess is the plastic movement ring interferes with the signal. We've had this at work the machine at work with the witschi with full automatic microphone approaching $10,000 sometimes with Seiko it will look like total crap. Remove the Seiko from the case put it back on the machine it's absolute perfect so it doesn't really matter whether it's a Chinese 1000 or very expensive witschi you need a good clean signal Oreo get unpredictable undesirable results

you also need a timing procedure does the problem only occur in one position or does it occur other places? In other words you should time the watch dial down and then dial-up and one crown position like crown down and then we should build a look at all three NC if we see anything. When you're timing in the various positions you want to let it sit on the microphone at least 30 seconds before even reading it to allow the watch to stabilize. Depending upon the watch when you're moving the microphone around still be a time span words unstable when you get strange readings. Then you can set them on the 1000 and 1900 machines is usually a recommendation for an averaging time I think that 1000 starts at four seconds typically with witschi they recommend 20 seconds. Extending the average time helps to even things out

then really helpful when you're having a issue like this especially because that's not a cheap watch a more expensive timing machine or timing machine software is required. This is where having our oscilloscope feature is nice. then often times with the oscilloscope the timing whatever will show you or tell you what it's trying to time from an based on that you can say out bad signal in other words you timing off the wrong part of the waveform.

On 5/25/2023 at 2:19 AM, Techniec said:

, should I just enjoy the watch and stop being overly obsessive, or would you send it back to Lange if you were in my shoes ?

as you're not going to stop being obsessed I would purchase a better timing machine something with our oscilloscope would be nice. Then before sending it back to the factory get the factory to tell you what the timing specifications are in other words where should the setting for the gain be how long should you times ben averaging be you really need a timing specifications if you went meaningful results.

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