Leonidas G.S.T.P pocket watch

[p2n]

Hi All,

I'm trying to identify this movement in order to source a replacement cannon pinion - the original is missing. Any thoughts on what it could be?

 

[JohnR725]

I don't suppose you have the diameter measured from the dial side?

[p2n]

42.85mm

[JohnR725]

4 minutes ago, p2n said:

42.85mm

one of the ways to identify watches is with the fingerprint system. Need one of the books that has the fingerprint system in it like the bestfit book and you need the size in 19 lignes. Then ideally we need all the setting components I can only see the setting bridge but let's see if that's enough see if there's anything close.

also I assume you looked under the balance wheel to see if there were any markings there?

then in the future because you know what the fingerprint system is you can have all the setting parts of their easier to see. I think may be perhaps? Notice the exact nature of the answer when you look at the watch don't worry about the plate layout you only worry about the wheel layout is the place can be shaped differently I think were close but I'm not sure how close notice there's some variations and it's a slightly smaller watch but not much so it's very likely in the same generation may be

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Unitas_429

okay I give you a task below not 100% sure I went back to the main page looked at something farther back like this one a notice of the setting parts are similar

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Unitas_309

so basically you're stuck going through all the watches of this manufacture if you agree that it looks close looking at all the ones that are labeled 18.5 because they don't seem to have a 19 and see which one most closely  matches yours.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk

then there's another way not as exact but it might get you close that is if the of the measurements of the stem. You can also do the same thing with the balance staff but that means you'd have to disassemble something that shouldn't be disassembled. So you look at the link get the stem measurements see if there's anything close

https://www.windingstems.com/product.php

or if you're lucky someone will see the discussion come along and tell us what it is which is usually what happens.

 

 

watch-ligne-size-chart.pdf

[p2n]

Wow thank you - thats a lot to digest and a few new great resources. There are no marks under the balance bridge or on the plate. Here is the shot of the disassembled watch.

[JohnR725]

found a little history on the company good news is it doesn't look like they actually manufactured their movements they purchased them. A cell found a website that had this G.S.T.P (General service time piece).

oh and your mainspring is blue steel it's probably set you won't know until you take it out.

https://www.watch-wiki.net/doku.php?id=leonidas

https://grail-watch.com/2022/04/05/the-rise-and-fall-of-leonidas-and-the-beau-site-factory/

 

 

[p2n]

5 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

your mainspring is blue steel it's probably set you won't know until you take it out

Already replaced

My list of useful websites is definitely getting longer!

[JohnR725]

2 minutes ago, p2n said:

Already replaced

out of curiosity which mainspring did you replace it with?

[p2n]

1 minute ago, JohnR725 said:

out of curiosity which mainspring did you replace it with?

The best match I could find was the GR5877 (https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/up-to-200mm-height?code=GR5877) It's about 100mm longer but fitted fine.

[JohnR725]

out of curiosity did the new spring other than length exactly match the dimensions of the old spring? The reason I'm curious about the exact dimensions of the old spring if we look in the mainspring catalog we may build verify who made the movement or maybe find somebody else with similar movement that we hadn't thought of.

[p2n]

The original spring was 630mm length (+/- 10mm), Height: 2.18mm, Thickness: 0.15mm and barrel diameter (internal) was 16.9mm.

[p2n]

I tried following in your footsteps, but I can't work out how you did it. Can you explain how you got to those movements?

[JohnR725]

10 hours ago, p2n said:

Can you explain how you got to those movements?

there are several ways to try to figure out what watch you have. for instance the first link this is the advanced search the website that had all the various movements you can enter in a variety of parameters and it will attempt to match it to the movements in the database the problem with all of the various things we look at is they may not necessarily have your watch

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-2uswk.cgi?1&ranfft

then there's his next link seeing as how I purchased my bestfit book I typically won't tell you where to download it for free. But somewhere in the group multiple of people appointed out you can download it for free. In the bestfit book and in other material books there is what's called a fingerprint system. This is where the setting components are of the unique design and you can match snows to the ones in the book to figure out what watch. Sometimes this is 100% other times you just point to the direction.

https://mccawcompany.com/product/bestfit-encyclopedia-books-111-111a-digital-download-pdf-version/

so what I did was I took your diameter went to the bestfit book looked at the pictures and found something that looked similar and encircled in the image up above. But we also have problems with that. That's why wanted the mainspring size just to verify something. So once you think you have the right watch then you can go to this link is the most common unfortunately don't have everything they just have basically the heck of water watches out there and this isn't all of them a lot of times you can just go to your favorite search engine search for the particular watch you might find something

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk

oh and then of course there was the up above I gave you the link to the stem website measured dimensions on your stamina and see if any stem is close is is when you start getting really desperate he can't figure out any other way only if does if you're lucky find anything that you can measure on the watch it has dimensions online or a book that you look at like the stem which is also found in the bestfit book they have stems by size. Also have the balance staffs but you don't want to take apart your balance to measure the staff unless you really have to because you can't put it back together sort of

then there was the mainspring cataloger is looking at and that brings up the problem for your watch because while we have setting parts it look right the mainsprings do not. It means they conceivably they had a custom made watch this is one of the problems and pop up today where it will say the watches based on this caliber but based on doesn't need it is that watch salons and you can have variations and that means you may never be able to find the parts.

then there's this interesting website lots and lots of files to download. So as you scroll down the list you might see best fit but just ignore them nothing interesting to download their. going down the list farther you get to Generale Ressorts. when you click on the link it takes you seemingly back to the top the list but now magically your file has appeared you can download the mainspring catalog what other nice features is if you go back to the back of the book you can go by the size your mainspring of find suitable mainsprings may work for your watch doesn't mean they still exist but inmate ale find something. Of course it does bring up the size problems for the watches that I raise I thought it was because your mainspring is taller than most of them. I'll let you explore that I think there were some 2.1 and not sure if the right 2.2 mm. But especially with the fingerprint system it's easy to miss something oh and if you had the physical bestfit book then the books are actually printed in the proper sizing where you can actually lathe parts on top of the book. But the electronic form is so much nicer to look up things that in the case of the bestfit book no idea where you download – in a case if you mysteriously figure out where downloaded then I would spend some time just looking through it there is no way to memorize everything in one reading it's the kind of thing you want to look at occasionally and say all I forgot that that was in the users way too much stuff in there to remember.

https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/files

this should get you started

 

 

[p2n]

Got one!

I have an old friend who is/was a watchmaker, and he found it for me. He said he found a match "from an Omega Labrador movement". The hour wheel needed to be broached to fit, which I managed without buggering it all up. So, I never really identified the original movement, but I solved the problem. Once it's fully back together, I'll post a final photo on this thread.

Thanks for all the help - I learned a lot.

[Neverenoughwatches]

58 minutes ago, p2n said:

Got one!

I have an old friend who is/was a watchmaker, and he found it for me. He said he found a match "from an Omega Labrador movement". The hour wheel needed to be broached to fit, which I managed without buggering it all up. So, I never really identified the original movement, but I solved the problem. Once it's fully back together, I'll post a final photo on this thread.

Thanks for all the help - I learned a lot.

Found a keyless match for you in an  old Flume book its a Unitas, bigger than the size you gave.  Having just re read the thread tallies up with john's find in Bestfits.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Neverenoughwatches