Cyma 775 lift angle

[RichardHarris123]

Does anyone know the lift angle for a Cyma 775? I've looked in all the usual places. 

I'm going to have to adjust the beat error, watched plenty of videos, still a  bit nervous. 

[rehajm]

I couldn't find a lift angle list with it either- they all seem to share the same omissions. You may have to do the manual calculation?

[praezis]

59 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I'm going to have to adjust the beat error, watched plenty of videos, still a  bit nervous. 

You don‘t need the lift angle for that.

Frank

[RichardHarris123]

1 hour ago, praezis said:

You don‘t need the lift angle for that.

Frank

I would still like to know though. 

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I would still like to know though. 

just as a reminder lift angles are only really important if you want to know the exact amplitude. The reason we don't have it listed anywhere is because timing machines they can measure amplitude are relatively new much newer than the watch. So there's no point in them publishing specifications for something that was never needed at the time and really isn't still need.

the reality is most watches around 52 or 53°.

but if you really absolutely have to no easy you can measure yourself. We've discussed it on the group personally I don't like to use a black or colored felt pen I use a different kind of felt pen and it fluoresces under a UV flashlight. In other words it makes it much much easier to see. I've taken the video below he was using a dark Mark sometimes a little white marking is a little better whatever it takes for you to see 180° and then you adjust your timing machine to agree with what you're seeing and then you know the lift angle.

https://youtu.be/1ozEEAkYX0M

okay I found the discussion for you so you can see why like the UV fluorescing pen as it is easier to see.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/17624-lift-angle-on-pocket-watches/

3 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I'm going to have to adjust the beat error, watched plenty of videos, still a  bit nervous.

then if you're feeling nervous maybe you should review what you are are going to do here and we can give you pointers. also how about a picture of your timing machine right now so we can see what it's doing?

[RichardHarris123]

40 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

just as a reminder lift angles are only really important if you want to know the exact amplitude. The reason we don't have it listed anywhere is because timing machines they can measure amplitude are relatively new much newer than the watch. So there's no point in them publishing specifications for something that was never needed at the time and really isn't still need.

the reality is most watches around 52 or 53°.

but if you really absolutely have to no easy you can measure yourself. We've discussed it on the group personally I don't like to use a black or colored felt pen I use a different kind of felt pen and it fluoresces under a UV flashlight. In other words it makes it much much easier to see. I've taken the video below he was using a dark Mark sometimes a little white marking is a little better whatever it takes for you to see 180° and then you adjust your timing machine to agree with what you're seeing and then you know the lift angle.

https://youtu.be/1ozEEAkYX0M

okay I found the discussion for you so you can see why like the UV fluorescing pen as it is easier to see.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/17624-lift-angle-on-pocket-watches/

then if you're feeling nervous maybe you should review what you are are going to do here and we can give you pointers. also how about a picture of your timing machine right now so we can see what it's doing?

I put a new mainspring in and ran it, I haven't serviced it yet, I  wanted to compare results.  Sorry I didn't take a picture but about 200 s/d, 220 amplitude and 9.9 m/s beat error.  I blew the balance without the pallet in place and it runs well. I tried two methods of identifying where the jewel is. Marking the balance and looking between the banking pins. The jewel appears central, in the correct place. 

[JohnR725]

one of the reasons I asked for timing machine pictures is to make sure that you're actually seeing what you're supposed to be seeing. Simplistically if the graphical display looks like somebody else once basically use this description of it looks like a snow globe random dots all over the place in your numbers are crap this is why ask Helena make sure that what were looking at is indeed correct. Because often times people will have weird graphical display and they'll have the numbers and think the numbers are right there are not

oh and when you're doing your timing especially if you doing comparison timing you really want to do dial-up, dial down and wristwatch crown down all three. Because things usually dramatically change when you go to one of the crown positions and it helps to see all three up-and-down should be identical or very close to identical and a crown position you lose amplitude which typically amplifies things and makes things look much worse

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Marking the balance and looking between the banking pins. The jewel appears central, in the correct place. 

one of the problems with putting watches visually and beat is. For instance with the fork in place you can look at whether it looks centered between the banking pins. But sometimes what you'll find on wristwatches is the difference between in beat out of beat visually it really doesn't appear to be very much at all. Some watches like Omega at one time but a little tiny dot on the balance wheel where the stud should go. I remember at work with a watch that was out of beat visually looked fine but the stud wasn't lined up with the little tiny.and not by very much. So the collet was rotated just a tiny bit and everything was perfect. But we you visually look right you shouldn't be off by 9.9 ms that is a problem

oh and pre-timing which I like to do just a warning. For your numbers to be correct three things have to be correct.

now is where we get into confusions which timing machine do you have? For instance the Chinese 1000 machine has and all the machines by the way can do similar things in various modes you can have rollover errors. For instance the graphical display will only display up to about four point some milliseconds then the display actually rolls over and the graphical display can look good and the numbers can look at and that can lead to confusion. At 9.9 ms your lines should be extremely far apart but on the display they won't be the lack should be really close together probably

the 1900 machine does better because it's a bigger display so you can have a much bigger separation before there could be an issue

the other very important thing is visually look at your amplitude does it agree with what you perceive the timing machine is showing you. One of the downfalls of all timing machines worse though on the Chinese is an extremely low amplitude the machine will read the wrong part of the waveform and give you a much higher number for the amplitude. So you may be seeing an amplitude that looks really good in the balance wheels barely moving. This is where we go to one of the crown positions the balance wheel may almost conceivably stop but the timing machine maven give you an even better number possibly. As the amplitudes starts dropping really low things like beach air can get dramatically magnified. So in other words if you're running at an extremely low amplitude right now the bead air may actually be fine it just looks really bad

so I actually like pre-timing my watches but you have to be very careful of what you're looking at and not to get confused and think things are perhaps better than they really are

 

 

 

 

 

[RichardHarris123]

I don't have time now but once I have reassembled, I'll post the results.