ETA 6497 Spring for jewelled shock absorber for balance - top

[kd8tzc]

One of the last springs I had went to never-never land.  I have been searching all day and no luck.  I would have to believe you can buy a bunch of these (I hope) from someone... I just need the gold spring ( a few would be great).

 

[LittleWatchShop]

Use a very bright flashlight to search for these things

[kd8tzc]

Been there, done that... can't find the bugger.

[JohnR725]

even though it's golden color it's not gold. That means you should try a magnet.

then I like your title we are searching for the top spring for a very specific caliber as opposed to a cloned caliber? Because with the cloned caliber from the Chinese that will change the spring you're looking for.

then based on the page below it looks like you're looking for a incablock 470.13

https://www.ofrei.com/page615.html

 

[kd8tzc]

Thanks John, but it is the cloned one... I need to buy a number of these so I can restore the two movements that I have turned into parts watches if I can't find these dumb springs.

Also, I know people say to place a thing of Rodico behind it to stop the spring from coming out, but in the past I have not done that as it seems Rodico sticks to everything (I've had a heck of time getting it off the chaton.

Other question... how does one figure out which side is domed on the Cap Jewel?  Both sides look flat to me.

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

but it is the cloned one

that's not what the title says.

so before I spend any more time attempting to find something let's figure out what it is exactly you have. Ideally in my mind when asking a question the title should reflect properly what it is you're looking for so it draws people's attention to helping you with your problem and it's nice if you also put the description in the text itself because sometimes I don't always read the title but here we only have the title and I found the spring for the title.

So before I spend any more time looking for anything else I assume from your wording it's a Chinese clone and is it running at 21,600 beats per hour? Because when the Chinese cloned the 6497 they did not they really clone the 6497-2. Which is a slightly different watch than the 6497 specifically the mainspring and there's a few other parts that are different. Then there's the problem of I don't actually remember anymore whether the spring is identical to the Swiss version or not I know they can be purchased because I was at a school where we used them for training purposes and yes we did purchase more of them but conveniently I don't seem to have a listing of what exactly we purchased.

5 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

Also, I know people say to place a thing of Rodico behind it to stop the spring from coming out, but in the past I have not done that as it seems Rodico sticks to everything (I've had a heck of time getting it off the chaton.

Other question... how does one figure out which side is domed on the Cap Jewel?  Both sides look flat to me.

then because the Chinese version spring will always fall out even if you're super careful it would be good to practice putting it back in again. Yes it will literally drop in the place if you do it correctly and I'm sure we've discussed it before on the group because I know I posted pictures of why the Chinese version this happens versus the Swiss where it typically does not happen usually.

Then when looking at the end stone you look at the reflection. In other words the flat side will reflect a perfect image and the dome side will have a distortion of the reflection that's the easiest way to tell which side is up. in other words if you look at the stone itself it's shiny and if you get a reflection of an overhead light for instance that's the easiest way to tell what you have

 

[VWatchie]

21 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

Also, I know people say to place a thing of Rodico behind it to stop the spring from coming out, but in the past I have not done that as it seems Rodico sticks to everything (I've had a heck of time getting it off the chaton.

I carve a piece of peg wood into the shape of a screwdriver blade and cover part of the spring with the blade. Should I happen to do something bad while releasing the spring it won't fly.

[kd8tzc]

11 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

So before I spend any more time looking for anything else I assume from your wording it's a Chinese clone and is it running at 21,600 beats per hour

Yes, this is correct.

Sorry, when I hear clone, I thought they made everything the same.

Edit: I did find that fantastic thread on the differences  which is helpful.  I can see on the Swiss Incabloc that there is only one side that the hinge can be inserted in, but what about on the clones?  If I do find the spring, how do I figure out what side to try and reinsert it on?

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by kd8tzc

[JohnR725]

doubtless go back to the original question can we find a spring or not? I wonder if the Chinese really make their own Springs? They make their own settings that's the problem would be nice if they just purchased Springs from the Swiss wouldn't that make it simple for us

okay the link below which I mentioned up above you scroll down towards the bottom you can buy an assortment. That means you can play with the spring and the setting in all of this stuff. You go to eBay but you run into a minor problems with assortments. Oh and it's not just on eBay some of the online material houses do this. Where I work when my boss is ordering parts he starts looking at things like assortments like all we could use this and one of the assortments was an assortment of well all the exact same part. So on the eBay sellers when they have an assortment of jewels I do have to wonder whether you really get what the assortment shows or not.

https://www.ofrei.com/page615.html

okay here's the link to the eBay sellers site I'm sure others have assortments. You scroll through the list of generic assortments book interestingly generic lots of variety of interesting Springs that we may or may not have ever seen in her entire life. Oh and is the minor problem with assortments a lot of times there may only be one part in the whole assortment is worthwhile at all the rest are worthless conceivably these may fall into that category although they do look pretty and do see one assortment of the proper type spring looks like again about 10 of $10

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ssn=lucretia1986&store_name=lucretia1986&_oac=1&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

now back to the original problem?

then yes this is confusing with no guarantee of a happy outcome

snipped out an image from one of the links above.

okay confusion is just go over something and 6497 and 6498 is basically identical except where the small secondhand goes. Whether one is in a pendant set or a hunting case. Or basically where the small secondhand goes that would not change the rest the components of the watch the original marketing or model number would be 6497 that it's been upgraded to 6497-1 which really means the same as the number without the – and then the – two is the upgraded version where things change.

So I look at the image that I snipped out we see that the upper item is the complete upper setting of everything for the  – one version but right below it then states that it's also the upper and lower for the – two version?

Then the second item state since the lower assembly for the non-– version and for the – two version it's the lower setting assembly except up above it's said both the setting assemblies with the same? Oh and to make things more interesting the second part number is a standard Incabloc part number 475.20 that gives us something to work with but what about the upper number 400/1736 that is also standard part number typically found in the bestfit book. What I was hoping for here was if the upper and lower springs of the same size that means the original posting person could measure get the dimensions and we can look in or I could look in my parts book and see if we can find a spring that might closely resemble what was missing. Or at least with figure out whether the current spring you are using because conceivably because the Chinese like to do this in other words they like to have variation conceivably the current variation does not match any thing of the past.

As you may have grasped the Chinese are not into the spare parts business there into the inexpensive cloning of watches business.

reference material? There are the physical best books the latest version and I think was in the early 70s which does limit what were going to find in it but there's also bestfit on line. The unfortunate problem is you really need both the online version is nice for looking up stuff but there is no pictures it also presents an amusing problem of despite what the website indicates the upper and lower the same which we know are probably not. The reason why they're typically not the same is the time you're servicing a watch look at the visible side notice how it's pretty the finishing is usually nice the tools are physically bigger look at the dial side that no one ever sees the jewels are typically smaller and the finishing is not as nice so we should have a bigger jewel assembly and a bigger spring on the top side of smaller on the other side and the bestfit listing we can see the upper and lower are different.

but studying my image more carefully it does look like the upper and lower spring are the same size? oh the other reason the settings would be different is there mounted differently plus the upper is typically thicker to accommodate the regulation components and the lower is typically thinner so yes maybe they really do have the same spring

so for the original posting person since you have nothing to lose preferably don't lose the spring take the lower spring out to see if it will fit in the upper one. Yes you can struggle to put it in you can fight putting it in and when it goes in it literally drops in a just it is. You can either you hold it carefully with your tweezers I found my hairspring tweezers worked better don't know why maybe just because they seemed more smaller it also take whatever your  favorite sticky clay for picking up fingerprints is and just barely grab the end of it and drop it in place but I found is much harder to do it that way. So just has to go in at a 45° angle rotate a little bit not slide back out preferably and then you could put in place. All because the Chinese skipped one manufacturing step because it was easier to do. So if we can confirm the upper spring and the lower springs are identical on your watch then we can attempt to see if the Swiss make a suitable sized spring that silly reason were looking at the upper and lower is to find a spring that fits your watch and that would include any other spring on the watch that currently fits.

Oh and you also notice the second image the same as the Swiss the standard version uses the one time spring and the cheaper version uses the other type spring which is why there's another set of setting parts that's for the cheaper version of the watch. Which the Chinese don't clone because why clone the cheaper version when you're already so cheap anyway

 

 

[kd8tzc]

8 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

but there's also bestfit on line

Do you have a link for that or is this an online resource that you have to have  a membership to get access to it?

 

10 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

physical best books

Is that the name of the book "Best Book"?

[JohnR725]

9 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

Do you have a link for that or is this an online resource that you have to have  a membership to get access to it?

for your second question there is a physical book it's available as a PDF but typically I don't give the link for it because I purchased mine and that wasn't quite sure about the copyright issues supposedly there is a copyright holder but if you ask how to get the best fit books online and by the way that's a post be one word my dictation software sometimes will do it right and other times it will. If you were to start a new discussion and say where can I download the best fit books somebody will come along and tell you where to download it for free but because I was aware that may be a copyright issue I typically will not tell you where to get it for free I will tell you where I purchased mine

okay at the link below you will find on the page for nine dollars you can purchase the PDF the bestfit book. But as I said if you just go and ask is a separate question where do I get this for free to download somebody will give you a link back she seen several different links.

okay just so we can see exactly what you're supposed to be getting the PDF ask the question get it for free I just won't do that. The other one is not free its $99 it's a lifetime whatever.unfortunately no pictures online but it has it all in a searchable feature C concerts by the watch caliber you concerts lookup factory part numbers and you can also look up like I did the what I call the best fit numbers which isn't entirely correct I think it's more of the Swiss the old Swiss system so the spring that had the number with 400 that refers to things related to the balance shocks stuff and in the/and then the other number is the actual parts so I went there and it told me what it cross-referenced. Which of course if I had remembered is exactly in the image up above you can see exactly what other watches use the same stuff the best fit online is very similar to the search found on the second link that I have below their similar but not exactly the same and it does give you the feature of cross referencing things a little differently

then yes the bestfit book to certain degree is a must have and you also have to look through it from time to time because there is so much information in their not just on parts there's some doing some watch repair stuff it's like all the stuff they just too much to remember so you basically have to look through it from time to time just to refresh your memory of look at all the wonderful stuff in here.

https://mccawcompany.com/?s=best+fit

http://cgi.julesborel.com/

 

[kd8tzc]

Thank you @JohnR725, so if I decide to purchase the Bestfit book, will this show me all the parts then for a particular watch, say the Hamilton 770 movement that is in my grandfathers watch from the 1950's?  Or how would I use it to find parts for that movement?

[LittleWatchShop]

8 minutes ago, kd8tzc said:

Thank you @JohnR725, so if I decide to purchase the Bestfit book, will this show me all the parts then for a particular watch, say the Hamilton 770 movement that is in my grandfathers watch from the 1950's?  Or how would I use it to find parts for that movement?

So that is the Pallet Arbor.  You page through the book until you find the part item, then search for your caliber.

[kd8tzc]

Okay, so there is a section for each manufacturer, and then subsections for the different items, and then I look for my movement?  So not everything on one page, but you should be able to find all the items of the movement if you know what you are looking for?

And I take it, in this example, grade refers to the movement #?

[LittleWatchShop]

5 minutes ago, kd8tzc said:

Okay, so there is a section for each manufacturer, and then subsections for the different items, and then I look for my movement?  So not everything on one page, but you should be able to find all the items of the movement if you know what you are looking for?

And I take it, in this example, grade refers to the movement #?

Yes.  Here is a full page as an example

 

[kd8tzc]

Thanks... can you show me what the Table of Contents looks like so I can see how I would find the various manufacturers, etc?  Sorry for all the questions.

[LittleWatchShop]

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

Okay, so there is a section for each manufacturer,

that's kind of a yes and no answer that's not exactly the way the book is divided up sort of. So I snipped out a sample page you'll notice it tells you manufacture gives the model numbers the size the movement and what's the next column its movement interchangeability. This is because typically manufacturers purchase OEM movements not everybody manufactures their own watch. If you had 20 people purchasing the same movement and you're going to stock parts you wouldn't want to stock parts for 20 manufactures. Like for instance Bulova Caballo movement from somebody else so the purpose the bestfit book is to take all his various manufacturers they come up with a different numbering system so that you would only have to stock parts for all of them it allows you to cross reference to get your parts.

But it goes way beyond that there's an entire section on the fingerprint system for the older watches the setting parts would allow you to identify or try to identify the movement you have maybe whoever made the watch doesn't give you a clue of which model number it is you look in the fingerprint system of figure out what it is and then hopefully find parts

to really explain the bestfit book would take a very long time which is why you need to see them. For instance is a link below is a very peculiar link. You scroll down you have names of manufacturers or some other weird name like bestfit and if you click on that or you click on the models of the various watches in the various sections you come back to basically where you started from except now at the very top of the page I can example of this book it appears to be as two separate PDFs you can download it and then you can see what were talking about.

https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/files

 

 

 

7 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

Hamilton 770 movement that is in my grandfathers watch from the 1950's?  Or how would I use it to find parts for that movement?

first for those it didn't memorize every single model number we need to figure out what it is? Difference

enough it might appear at the link below.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk

and yes it does appear at the link above and it will take us to hear

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Hamilton_770

it was a pocket watch would go in a different direction but it's a wristwatch. then we end up with some peculiar problems like there is a Hamilton section in the bestfit book but there is no cross reference section or no generic parts because it's a Hamilton apparently the bestfit really is for cross-referencing Swiss imported watches not always entirely but so are the online reference no reference one of the other sites there's no reference.

so for instance Hamilton has a parts book but everyone's parts books are different some of them lists them by the particular watch which I prefer and others list them in another fashion . Like this book lists all the individual parts in the individual part category but your movement is listed so you will villa find all your individual part numbers.

http://library.ihc185.com/catalogs/ham1961/ham1961.pdf