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New Elma SE heater quit working - Could use some advice - Photos attached


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Two weeks ago the heater on my new Elma SE just decided to quit working.  I've been emailing back and forth with Elma's customer service in Germany, and they requested that I test the heating element.  They said I should be getting around 200 Ohms when testing the heating element (obviously with power removed), but they did not mention which two of the four leads on the part needed to be tested.  I'm the farthest thing from an expert when it comes to electronics diagnosis, but I am pretty handy taking things apart.  I removed the heating element and tested every combination of leads with my multi-meter.  I could really use the advice of someone who knows how to interpret these readings to tell me if they thing the heating element is bad.

The lowest reading I got was 233 Ohms, and other readouts of 240, 262, 494, 735, and over 2000 Ohms when testing other combinations of those 4 leads. 

Tagging @LittleWatchShop because I know he's pretty smart with these sorts of things!  

 

 

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I've also attached a copy of the wiring diagram they provided for the unit:

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The machine still cleans parts wonderfully, and for now I'm just simply taking the parts basket to my dryer setup I used before I got this machine.  I would appreciate any help or advice you can provide. 

 

Thank you.

Edited by thor447
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3 hours ago, thor447 said:

but they did not mention which two of the four leads on the part needed

when you remove the part from wherever you removed it from there is probably a connector did you see how many wire leads the connector had? or more important the wire leads would tell you where you're supposed to be testing.

3 hours ago, thor447 said:

new Elma SE just decided to quit working.

new usually implies warrantee versus DIY troubleshooting?

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26 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

new usually implies warrantee versus DIY troubleshooting?

I am troubleshooting at the instructions of Elma customer service.  They requested that I open it up and check the switch, fuse, and heating element.  I'm still waiting to hear back from them after sending them my results.

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32 minutes ago, thor447 said:

I am troubleshooting at the instructions of Elma customer service.  They requested that I open it up and check the switch, fuse, and heating element.  I'm still waiting to hear back from them after sending them my results.

I find that a little disturbing and a little strange. Would Elma ask a customer to troubleshoot their own machine?

I used to service Elma ultrasonic cleaners and steam cleaners for the local agent here in my country. Elma NEVER gives service notes or schematics to their distributors.

Has Covid changed their attitudes?

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20 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

I find that a little disturbing and a little strange. Would Elma ask a customer to troubleshoot their own machine?

I used to service Elma ultrasonic cleaners and steam cleaners for the local agent here in my country. Elma NEVER gives service notes or schematics to their distributors.

Has Covid changed their attitudes?

I don't know.  I emailed them through the Elma website, and have been talking with them about my machine, doing what they request.  I'm thinking that perhaps they don't have a US based service center available, and will hopefully just ship me a part.  I somewhat understand it.  It's not like these cleaning machines are easy to ship, and if they are able to diagnose a simple fix, perhaps they'll just send a part.

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5 hours ago, thor447 said:

It's not like these cleaning machines are easy to ship

thinking about shipping out of curiosity where did you order your machine from and do they package the machines well for shipping? Maybe a problem is something worked its way loosen from shipping if they didn't properly package it.

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4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

thinking about shipping out of curiosity where did you order your machine from and do they package the machines well for shipping? Maybe a problem is something worked its way loosen from shipping if they didn't properly package it.

He bought it locally. There was no shipping involved.

Something wrong with your 1-3 measurement.

Labeling L to R 1,2,3,4.

1-2 240

2-3 260

1-3 should be 500

Measure again on a higher range so we can see the actual value.

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2 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

I think the PTC heater is ok. That's why I asked him to measure the voltage at the connector.

Probably. The circuitry on the PCB would be helpful to see. Could be whatever drives the terminals of the heater. Is there I temp sensor that will cut off the heater if it gets too hot?

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12 hours ago, thor447 said:

I don't know.  I emailed them through the Elma website, and have been talking with them about my machine, doing what they request.  I'm thinking that perhaps they don't have a US based service center available, and will hopefully just ship me a part.  I somewhat understand it.  It's not like these cleaning machines are easy to ship, and if they are able to diagnose a simple fix, perhaps they'll just send a part.

 

Before I bought my Elma Solvex SE I emailed the company with questions regarding the warranty and they suggested I contact the Elma lead at Jules Borel (their US distributor) Kyle Woolworth. He answered my warranty questions (2 years coverage), which included asking who does the servicing. They use Electronic Instrument Service for servicing in the US.

Edited by GuyMontag
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I'm in @JohnR725 camp. Something is very wrong here. How on earth can they expect a customer to have any knowledge about electricity / electronics, have a (calibrated?) multi-meter at home, understands what he is reading / doing and can read schematics? Once the device has been opened up, they can blame the customer. What if the customer, on their instructions, makes a genuine mistake or worse, gets harmed?

All associated shipping & troubleshooting cost is not @thor447 problem.

If the device is indeed brand new, ship it back. You paid for the device including warranty.

What would be next? Please check out the high-voltage part inside a TV-set? That would get rid of the problem, meaning the customer.

Edited by Endeavor
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9 hours ago, thor447 said:

I am away from home today, but will measure 1-3 at a higher range and will report the results when I get back.

With all respect, but the multi-meter you are using doesn't seem to be the "newest" model. How reliable are the readings? ..... Has your meter ever been calibrated since it left the factory?

Edited by Endeavor
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With all due respect. I have multimeters that are 30 yrs old. And they have never been calibrated. Granted, they may not be 100% accurate but none of them have drifted off by more than 5 %. Which is better than the tolerance of general components.

For that matter, do timegraphers need to be calibrated?

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42 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Granted, they may not be 100% accurate but none of them have drifted off by more than 5 %

So you do check them against something, else you wouldn't know the max. 5% drift.

At least you have an idea that your meters are giving okay numbers. My point was, is that also the case with the meter above?

Edited by Endeavor
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1 hour ago, Endeavor said:

With all respect, but the multi-meter you are using doesn't seem to be the "newest" model. How reliable are the readings? ..... Has your meter ever been calibrated since it left the factory?

No. The meter is not the issue. Even if it has a 20% error, for the measurements he took and the nature of the device under test, it would not matter.

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2 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

No. The meter is not the issue. Even if it has a 20% error, for the measurements he took and the nature of the device under test, it would not matter.

 

Even if the meter gives bogus readings .......... interesting 🤔

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2 minutes ago, Endeavor said:

 

Even if the meter gives bogus readings .......... interesting 🤔

240 ohms was one of the readings. For a heater operating off 110V, that is reasonable. Not bogus.

1 minute ago, RichardHarris123 said:

If the wire in the heating element was broken, wouldn't the reading be infinity? Yes, I know nothing has infinite resistance but the reading would be.  Please correct me if I'm mistaken. 

The meter would simply read the highest reading. There is no infinity symbol on the meter display.

7 hours ago, Endeavor said:

If the device is indeed brand new, ship it back. You paid for the device including warranty.

It is not brand new.

I know Thor said the unit was new in the OP. However, he and I have spoken and texted by phone a number of times. We discussed the unit when he got it. It was relatively new but he did not buy it from Elma.

I can see how this has caused some confusion in the responses.

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