Vintage ladies watch rectangular ~19.5x1.3mm

[Knebo]

Hello ladies and gentlemen, 

I'd be grateful if anyone could identify this movement from a very old ladies watch. No shock protection system. Roughly 19.5 x 13mm rectangular. 15 jewels. Can't find any manufacturer logo/name on the movement (I disassembled it fully). 

The balance staff is broken and I'm trying to find a replacement. 

Lorsa 514 looks similar, but is more modern with shock springs. My dream would be if the whole balance assembly (including the cock) of the Lorsa 514 would fit on my movement , but I guess it's unlikely (http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Lorsa_514). 

[clockboy]

Welcome to the forum, enjoy.

It looks like a Mido 502 (Peseux 140)

[Knebo]

38 minutes ago, clockboy said:

Welcome to the forum, enjoy.

It looks like a Mido 502 (Peseux 140)

Thanks for the input! 

Looks similar, I agree, but the size doesn't match (16x11.55mm according to Ranfft). 

[JohnR725]

Can we get a picture of the dial side  so we can see the setting components?

 

 

[Knebo]

Yes sure!! Thanks for looking at it! 

Here you go. 

 

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Can we get a picture of the dial side  so we can see the setting components?

 

 

 

[nickelsilver]

Looks a lot like an FEF 150 (Fleurier).

 

 

 

 

Or a Buren 35

 

 

Actually it must be Buren, the movement side is pretty dead-on, but maybe a slightly different caliber? Ranfft doesn't have much for them in the form movements.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by nickelsilver

[Knebo]

Thank you @nickelsilver !

Definitely close! The differences may just be superficial/decorative (differences in train bridge and balance cock shape). For me, the question is if I'd find the exact spare part for the exact movement (balance staff, ideally with spring or even entire cock). Or if I should just find another movement entirely that fits into the watch. The Lorsa 514 would then fit well (by it's external dimensions) and it's dirt-cheap on eBay.

[nickelsilver]

8 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Thank you @nickelsilver !

Definitely close! The differences may just be superficial/decorative (differences in train bridge and balance cock shape). For me, the question is if I'd find the exact spare part for the exact movement (balance staff, ideally with spring or even entire cock). Or if I should just find another movement entirely that fits into the watch. The Lorsa 514 would then fit well (by it's external dimensions) and it's dirt-cheap on eBay.

Not so fast- (didn't realize how many makers made this shape)- it actually appears to be a Nouvelle Fabrique (Tavannes) S.A.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by nickelsilver

[Knebo]

Oh wow, that does look right! You're a hero.

Amazing reference book you have there!! What is that?

[nickelsilver]

3 hours ago, Knebo said:

Oh wow, that does look right! You're a hero.

Amazing reference book you have there!! What is that?

It's two volume set out of Switzerland, not all-encompassing but lots of info. More easily found is the "Bestfit" book, from the U.S.

 

 

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Actually it must be Buren, the movement side is pretty dead-on, but maybe a slightly different caliber? Ranfft doesn't have much for them in the form movements.

 

5 hours ago, Knebo said:

balance staff

 

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

More easily found is the "Bestfit" book, from the U.S.

The problem with the best fit book is it only includes the watches imported into the US that means conceivably a heck of a lot of watches that you will not find. Also it's kind of time restricted depending upon which the volume of the book you have. So the current version we download is only really the 60s and the 70s and this watch is probably prior so you might need an earlier book.

Then there's another way to possibly verify this if you're replacing the balance staff you can measure the old one and there's references we can look up staffs sizes and see what staff matches the size you have. The same as the stem you can measure the stem and see which watches use a similar stem size. They're not as nice as the fingerprint system at least for the stem but much better for the balance staff especially if that's what you need to get one the same size.

[Knebo]

On 3/28/2023 at 7:52 PM, nickelsilver said:

It's two volume set out of Switzerland, not all-encompassing but lots of info. More easily found is the "Bestfit" book, from the U.S.

Well, I live in Switzerland, so maybe I'll eventually get my hands on one of those

On 3/28/2023 at 9:55 PM, JohnR725 said:

Then there's another way to possibly verify this if you're replacing the balance staff you can measure the old one and there's references we can look up staffs sizes and see what staff matches the size you have. The same as the stem you can measure the stem and see which watches use a similar stem size. They're not as nice as the fingerprint system at least for the stem but much better for the balance staff especially if that's what you need to get one the same size.

That's true, good suggestion. But first, I'll need to get a better caliper for that. Mine was a gift and it's not precise enough for this task, I think.

It would be quite a thrill to disassemble/reassemble the whole balance.. not sure I'm there yet with my skills (and tools...). 

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, Knebo said:

Well, I live in Switzerland, so maybe I'll eventually get my hands on one of those

that's an interesting country you live in. I heard a rumor that they might manufacturer watches their in fact rumor has it they been doing it for a very long time. That means conceivably tools materials supplies can be found in shops. Unless of course it's all going to eBay now but I'm guessing at one time you could find nifty stuff in shops.

Perhaps as nickelsilver appears to live in the same country could enlighten us as to whether there still shops selling used tools and supplies?  unless of course they've embraced eBay and it all disappears the eBay.

 

 

[mikepilk]

If it's NFT 525 Cousins list the balance staff as Ronda 761. They also have a complete balance in stock (also available on ebay).