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If you are serious and like to continue with this hobby, investing in a timegrapher could be a good idea.

The Weishi 1000 performs very good, certainly very good value for money.1059590413_Screenshot2023-03-11at10_04_17.thumb.png.9a1bc6e0b3c71fdd29ec9e8d1cd1b1be.png

Take the patent number printed on it with 2x grains of Chinese salt 😆

I'm very happy with mine 😉

 

 

Edited by Endeavor
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Hi As Endevour said a timing machine is a must for the serious hobbyist. There are several good PC based systems that are available at no cost or little cost, Watch O Scope,  being one. Lite version is free to use but needs an amplifier building to boost the signal. And TG. Time Grapher which is similar and needs a amp and pickup as well. Both very good and checked against my Horometer are accurate. Phone based apps the juts is still out on them.

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1 hour ago, Endeavor said:

The Weishi 1000 performs very good, certainly very good value for money.

I know of these ones, and of course there are chinese made ones. I think I will get one eventually. 

50 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi As Endevour said a timing machine is a must for the serious hobbyist. There are several good PC based systems that are available at no cost or little cost, Watch O Scope,  being one. Lite version is free to use but needs an amplifier building to boost the signal. And TG. Time Grapher which is similar and needs a amp and pickup as well. Both very good and checked against my Horometer are accurate. Phone based apps the juts is still out on them.

I have seen a little about the PC based ones. I think I will start with something like this. Thank you for mentioning the brands, I will look into them. An amplifier is not that difficult to add I think. Phone based ones would be even easier to get started with, but I assume it will depend on the microphone placement and quality in each different phone model. Also how far from the microphone the movement is placed. But worth a try. 

35 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Is it your first attempt at servicing?  If so a pocket watch would be better, as long as it's not a full plate. 

It is my first movement. But I have done a bit of microsoldering, and assembled small gears before. The screws holding down the datewheel retaining plate seems to be the same size as a 0402 SMD components. I will need smaller screwdrivers tho. 

If I fail, then I will try the pocket watch. But how hard can it be? And the movement is cheap so no big loss if I fail. 

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24 minutes ago, anda3243 said:

I know of these ones, and of course there are chinese made ones. I think I will get one eventually. 

I have seen a little about the PC based ones. I think I will start with something like this. Thank you for mentioning the brands, I will look into them. An amplifier is not that difficult to add I think. Phone based ones would be even easier to get started with, but I assume it will depend on the microphone placement and quality in each different phone model. Also how far from the microphone the movement is placed. But worth a try. 

It is my first movement. But I have done a bit of microsoldering, and assembled small gears before. The screws holding down the datewheel retaining plate seems to be the same size as a 0402 SMD components. I will need smaller screwdrivers tho. 

If I fail, then I will try the pocket watch. But how hard can it be? And the movement is cheap so no big loss if I fail. 

Phone based timegrapher's are basically rubbish, if you can afford it buy the Weishi.  Let us know how the service goes. 

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19 hours ago, anda3243 said:

Phone based ones would be even easier to get started with, but I assume it will depend on the microphone placement and quality in each different phone model. Also how far from the microphone the movement is placed. But worth a try. 

I see somebody beat me to the answer. Yes it's worth a try but they really don't work very well unless you can get External microphone. Because the microphone and the phone is designed for audio voice not designed to pick up the vibration of the watch. Timing machines would prefer to pick up the vibration of the watch to get a good clean signal otherwise you will be led astray by poor signal quality At least we have on this discussion group trying to help somebody with a phone app thinking their watches bad and it wasn't really there watch after all was just the phone app.

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I seems to me that your BPH is way off. Not sure what you are testing?

Pocket-watches often 18,000 BPH, most modern watches 21,600 or 28,800 BPH. Not sure what 10,800 BPH does, an old alarm-clock?

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Also, when the amplitude is that low, your reading may be bogus readings. You can "physically" verify the amplitude of the balance wheel with your smart-phone. Take a 10-15 seconds slow-mo video of the balance-wheel and watch the video in slow-motion. Take a point on the balance wheel (a spoke for example) which you can follow. If that point makes a full circle (180 degrees to the left and 180 degrees to the right) you have an Amplitude of 180 degrees. If you W-o-S reading is correct with 143 degrees, than the observed point should make a 143 degrees rotation to the left and a 143 degrees to the right; about 40 degrees less than 180 on either side or about 50 degrees more than 90 degrees on either side.

For further W-o-S adjustments/settings, I refer to people who (still) have one. I used to have one, but that's years ago.

Edited by Endeavor
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I used TG on my PC, connected to a chinses microphone. It only worked 30% of the time and mostly on watches in cases. Watch movement I was working on hardly ever gave a reading. £32 wasted. I purchase a Weishi from an ebay British company, £139. Arrived within 48 hours. Excellent product. I get a reading every time, movement in or out of case. 

I'm getting better. Cleaning and assembling is now pretty easy. I am however still struggling with low amplitudes.  This hobby is s enjoyable. I am improving and will get there.

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3 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

I purchase a Weishi from an ebay British company, £139. Arrived within 48 hours. Excellent product.

With the W-o-S; been there, done that 😉

The Weishi 1000 has served me perfectly ever since.

4 hours ago, anda3243 said:

so I might be doing something wrong, there might be incorrect settings etc..... 

My very shortterm memory is fading, but didn't I say "Don't be fooled by "how to restore a watch in three easy lessons"?

Perhaps I didn't say that to you....... ? 🤔

Edited by Endeavor
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7 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

I used TG on my PC, connected to a chinses microphone. It only worked 30% of the time and mostly on watches in cases. Watch movement I was working on hardly ever gave a reading. £32 wasted. I purchase a Weishi from an ebay British company, £139. Arrived within 48 hours. Excellent product. I get a reading every time, movement in or out of case.

The Chinese USB microphone does seem to work I was testing at the other night. But it doesn't really work with the TG software nor did the other microphone that I have that's even better because the TG  graphical display seems to suck. The weaker so I go somebody asked about their watch based on the TG image they had and I said they had and escapement issue but now that I've had a more serious play with the TG software I would say they had a diagnostic issue with the crappy software.

So the reality seems to be the easiest the best thing for anyone to be using would be one of the Chinese timing machine's either the 1000 or the 1900 they both work fine that both do the job and that both inexpensive.

4 hours ago, Endeavor said:

My very shortterm memory is fading, but didn't I say "Don't be fooled by "how to restore a watch in three easy lessons"?

No no no no that's all wrong people of referred me to I probably shouldn't say the channel but there's at least one YouTube channel this quite a few more to be honest watch repair is easy anybody can do it no skill required at least that's what the videos show. The amusement also is people will say when they get in the watch repair the parts seem to be much smaller than they were on the YouTube video I'm sure that's probably just her eyesight is not like watch parts are really tiny or anything.

8 hours ago, anda3243 said:

I got a watch-o-scope.

Are you using the Chinese USB  microphone with it or something else because that has a big influence on how well the software works.

8 hours ago, anda3243 said:

The brand new movement is not very good it seems.

Now is it actually brand-new or way up at the beginning of the discussion you indicated you going to take it apart have you take it apart yet or is it brand-new factory fresh? Because as soon as it taken apart all bets are off as to how well it's going to run or not. Then ideally when you're starting out you want to get a clone a Chinese clone of the 6497 a nice and big dinner easy to see either easier to work on as opposed to something like this of questionable quality And it's much smaller has an automatic complications that you don't need when you're starting out.

8 hours ago, anda3243 said:

This is a new test, so I might be doing something wrong, there might be incorrect settings etc..... 

It's already been pointed out but you're having a problem. Your watch is probably either 18,000 or faster as it's a modern watch it's not the frequency you see that that would be something much much older.  go back to wherever you purchased the watch from and see if they tell you what the frequency is or see if you have any other watch mechanical to try with the software we need something that's working.

Then there's something very important to remember with timing machines. You look at the graphical display does it look like a snow globe if so that's bad. You should have two lines without the lines that's bad the graphical display and the numeric display should be in agreement with whatever your eyes see. Sometimes you get situations with extremely low amplitudes that will numerically read much higher because the machines reading the wrong part of the waveform C should build a visually look at the watch and the machine should agree with whatever your visually seeing

Then it be nice to have a picture showing how your holding the watch in the microphone. Also be nice to have an oscilloscope image off the timing software so we can see with the signal looks like then yes all the parameters are wrong.

 

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22 hours ago, Endeavor said:

Pocket-watches often 18,000 BPH, most modern watches 21,600 or 28,800 BPH. Not sure what 10,800 BPH does, an old alarm-clock?

This is good to know, turned out to be 21600 for my movement. 

Apparently the software can run without the microphone being plugged in correctly, or plugged in at all. Also it disables the default soundcard and enables the USB microphone. 

I adjusted the hairspring so the daily rate is OK. I understand that the amplitude is not great. And the beat error is not that good. 

image.thumb.png.9bdd83a0e1320820ca62d4475344a272.png

21 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

I used TG on my PC, connected to a chinses microphone. It only worked 30% of the time and mostly on watches in cases. Watch movement I was working on hardly ever gave a reading. £32 wasted. I purchase a Weishi from an ebay British company, £139. Arrived within 48 hours. Excellent product. I get a reading every time, movement in or out of case. 

I only paid around 15 USD for mine. I am sure I will get the more expensive one eventually. 

18 hours ago, Endeavor said:

My very shortterm memory is fading, but didn't I say "Don't be fooled by "how to restore a watch in three easy lessons"?

Perhaps I didn't say that to you....... ? 🤔

You did say that. 🙂  But the problems encountered so far are not that difficult. 

13 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Are you using the Chinese USB  microphone with it or something else because that has a big influence on how well the software works.

This is my setup. As per the recomendations at WatchOScope homepage. I assume that the microphone is inside the enclosure. I would also assume it is attached to the metal prong. I think it is crucial that the movement has a solid contact with the metal prong. 

I will open it and investigate at a later stage. 

2669115ad5fce645508eb3ac91c0fac.thumb.jpg.0415e9e4e972196ca7720aa056a1b35a.jpg

d60cbb705fcd6b20e13c40fe0056431.thumb.jpg.d05a1dd1180cee9c67c7b469fe848b3d.jpg

13 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Now is it actually brand-new or way up at the beginning of the discussion you indicated you going to take it apart have you take it apart yet or is it brand-new factory fresh? Because as soon as it taken apart all bets are off as to how well it's going to run or not. Then ideally when you're starting out you want to get a clone a Chinese clone of the 6497 a nice and big dinner easy to see either easier to work on as opposed to something like this of questionable quality And it's much smaller has an automatic complications that you don't need when you're starting out.

I do believe this is a brand new movement. I did adjust the hairspring tension during the initial tries, but I managed to adjust it back quite OK. You can spot my adjustment tool on the table 😉 .

I am not sure what this is a clone of. But I am sure it is a clone. I do like jumping in on the deep end. 

Next I will get some appropriate tools.

 

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