Timex M24 Manual questions

[kd8tzc]

Hi all, I know I have another thread trying to get an old M24 going again, but I didn't want to muddy that topic with these seemingly strange questions that I have regarding the Timex service manual.  The manual in question is the one found here on Heritage1854 site.  I will reference the page number on the bottom of the image.

p24.3, step a.  It says "do not remove the minute or hour hand".  Why?  Won't this pull out the cannon pinion, hour wheel, and hour wheel washer when you do take the dial assembly off?

24.3, step c.  "should further disassembly be necessary, removal of the minute hand will free the friction and cannon pinion assembly".  The cannon pinion is #242 in the diagram, but where is the friction "thing" (not sure if it is a pinion or what)?  I don't see this in the exploded view.

I know I will have more questions, but I have not gotten the courage to take the balance wheel out... I know I will have questions on that.

 

[JerseyMo]

the manual is a guide so do not take everything it states as absolute.  practice will be your best teacher.

[JohnR725]

As this is a Timex watch you'll find servicing will be a little different than a normal watch. I have a suspicion the best way to figure this out is the folding instructions and remove the dial with the hands-on exactly as it says. As you can see the movement is cleaned assembled other than removing the balance wheel so that the pivots can be exposed the cleaning fluids. Then normally wouldn't have to clean the cannon pinion assembly unless it's really dirty and I suspect when you take the dial off to figure out where the friction components are or are not. Often times on pin lever type watches the cannon pinion isn't exactly where you normally would think it would be.

[kd8tzc]

Thanks JersyMo and JohnR.  When people say to use Lighter fluid, are we talking Zippo lighter fluid, charcoal lighter fluid (are the two the same?), or can one also use Coleman fuel?

[JohnR725]

33 minutes ago, kd8tzc said:

When people say to use Lighter fluid, are we talking Zippo lighter fluid, charcoal lighter fluid (are the two the same?), or can one also use Coleman fuel?

Then no they're not all the same thing. The problem with lighter fluids are there meant for lighting things on fire.

Which are looking for ideally as a cleaning product something that leaves his zero residue behind. So to put a drop of your potential cleaning fluid on a piece a glass for instance and let it evaporate make sure it leaves zero residue behind. Often times the other fluids that people try to use because it think it's cheap will leave thin amounts of lubrication behind basically they have oils in them and that's not good for the oilier putting on the watch.

You'll notice the link below lighter fluid is basically Naphtha. So maybe you should try or local hardware store and see if you get a can of that at least it should be pure versus the others that could have additives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighter_fluid

 

 

[JerseyMo]

your questions on vintage Timex inspired me to pick up a lot.     3 are up and running already.   

[kd8tzc]

10 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

3 are up and running already.   

Man, and I can't even get one running.    Someday I will have the experience to get them running again.

That watch band looks like something Evel Knievel might have owned

[JohnR725]

23 minutes ago, kd8tzc said:

Evel Knievel might have owned

I'm not sure that evil Knievel could withstand the stress that Timex watches took during their advertising the phase on television.

For example here's one of their advertisements.

 

 

[kd8tzc]

Ahhh.. the good ole days when there was actually something to watch on TV. 

It would have been interesting to see if Evel could have stood up to that.  I think he said that he broke every bone in his body at one time or another... this might have sped that up a little.  Kind of reminds me of riding in the dryer as a kid.

I'll have to go watch that again, but I couldn't tell if the watches were still running.

[JerseyMo]

I knew the exact watch that would match the strap. - 

[JerseyMo]

one more done but I need to replace this cracked crystal.

[kd8tzc]

Anyone know how to open an old Marlin with what looks like a screw on back?  Looks like it needs a a tool with four slim slots to open it.  Is there anything I can use to open this short of a special tool?

[JohnR725]

58 minutes ago, kd8tzc said:

screw on back

If you look carefully it's not your normal screw back as you're already noticed. Typically you see similar things on Accutron Bulova watches where there's an outer ring that screws on. But this ring doesn't look like it's screws it looks like its locked into tabs four of them on the case.

The problem with outer rings are ideally you should have a special wrench. Another was it fits into the notches and then you can turn. In the case of Bulova they do have a special wrench. You can use your standard case wrench except. Normally with a standard case wrench to tighten it up and hold the back tightly when you rotate it you do not want to grab the back itself tightly as typically it's held in place with a tab or something in its physical location. So all you want to do is rotate the ring Only.

[kd8tzc]

The problem is, my standard wrench's don't fit into anything on the back. 

To me, it looks like I need something in those 4 slots (or maybe at least two opposing ones) that I could insert and then rotate?

Maybe @JerseyMoknows what I need (just my luck it's some rare opener that is difficult to find).

[JohnR725]

1 minute ago, kd8tzc said:

(or maybe at least two opposing ones)

Then yes you should be able to do with two opposing ones if you can open up your case wrench wide enough. Otherwise you need a special wrenches which are not going to ever find. Watchmakers typically accumulate a huge pile of miscellaneous case wrenches for all the miscellaneous cases they typically never see at least old-time watchmakers did. Which explains why have a small drawer of miscellaneous case wrenches of cases that I never see

 

 

[JerseyMo]

oh my  that requires the rare and hard to find goes-in-ta tool!  I think some call it a needle nose pliers   or you can use a case back wrench that has fine tips like the one in the back ground.  just twist to the left.  

 

and I'm going to take a guess at what the next question will be once you open the case back.  "How do I release the stem"?  and no special tool required for that either.

[kd8tzc]

I do have a Chinese clone of the Bergeon opener that has a whole bunch of tips, but none of them will fit in the slot... but, I think I could grind one of the tips to be a little thinner to maybe fit.

Not sure I have the thin top needle nose pliers, but that would be the easiest I think if I have them.

[JerseyMo]

two nails in wood will do the trick too...  learning to make your own gadgets is part of the fun.

 

[kd8tzc]

Well, I ground it down a little and it fit perfect.... so I have the back off... it has 3A58 on the back... not sure if that is a date or not.... I don't see any other numbers on the watch, but maybe it is under the bezel.  You will be proud of me too Mo... I believe it is a M22 movement and I got the crown and stem out.  The crown is really smooth too (have another one like that) so it is hard to wind.  Do the crowns unscrew from the stem on the old Timex watches?

One issue I am having with this watch is when I place it face down it runs, but when the watch is face up, it stops. Not exactly sure how to get the face off, but I think it is simply bending those little ears back.

I also think there is some radium on the hands.

[JerseyMo]

1958 Marlin. there is no date code on the dial.  Dial codes came into use starting in 1963.  Some of the crowns do twist off on the earlier Timex but not in 58.  Finding a replacement will be difficult.  Why does it stop dial side up?  likely the balance is worn and or the vconic is as well.  is where you start and it can be a bunch of other reasons that will take a book to explain.  bottom line it is due to wear.  

[kd8tzc]

Okay, so bottom line, best to find a donor movement if I want to preserve the watch?  Might be fun to take this one apart though to learn from.

I think the tricky part will be finding a M22 that works.