Just got myself a used Greiner Magnomatic

[VWatchie]

As I was just casually browsing "Swedish eBay" (tradera.com) I found this machine with 3 minutes remaining on the auction and the following description from the seller:

"A powerful demagnetizer from Swiss Greiner. Works when checked, demagnetizes and the light flashes. Crack in the cover lower right. New price today at Cousinsuk is £885."

Indeed, when checked, the price of Cousins was £885, and as my Elma Antimag doesn't seem to work all that well with larger magnetized objects such as screwdrivers and hand levers I placed a bid and won it for £115! Not bad if it works as intended. Now my question is if there's some easy and convenient way to test that it really works. I'm sure I could figure out something for myself (and I have an Indian hand lever that I've been unable to demagnetize with my Elma), but any tips/ideas would be welcome!

[Endeavor]

Seems a good buy, if it works

A while ago I made myself, what I thought was the mother of all the "zappers" , but I've some Dumoxel Dumont tweezers, supposedly 95% anti-magnetic, however they are magnetic (tiny screws clinging to them) and I just can't get rid of it.

So, if your "zapper" is better than my "mother of all the zappers", please let me know! ()

I guess you just have to try and see if you get good results

Your iPhone with the "Lepsi"-app could be of some help. Even though the Lepsi-app indicates only magnetism detected or not, but the distance from the object by which it does, tells you a lot.

Curious about your results .......

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Endeavor

[VWatchie]

Thanks, @Endeavor I'll report back as soon as I've tested it.

For the time being I'm practising HS-manipulation whatever little time I have left over after work and family. Ay caramba, it is challenging! Especially when the spring is neither flat nor round.

[JohnR725]

11 hours ago, VWatchie said:

A powerful demagnetizer from Swiss Greiner.

Not only is it powerful but you'll find it's a rather heavy demagnetizer it has a rather sizable coil assembly. That's not flat it actually wraps around which is why it's shaped the way it is

[RichardHarris123]

You can use a compass to check for magnetism.  I made my own for when I need something more powerful.  It's the stator from a central heating pump.

[Endeavor]

4 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

You can use a compass to check for magnetism

I hadn't seen the pump idea

Not to deviated from the topic of this thread, but a quick comment and referral to another thread for compasses: Compasses don't work; well they do but they don't:

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Endeavor

[RichardHarris123]

1 hour ago, Endeavor said:

I hadn't seen the pump idea

Not to deviated from the topic of this thread, but a quick comment and referral to another thread for compasses: Compasses don't work; well they do but they don't:

 

I've read your article, very interesting. 

[nickelsilver]

I've never really gotten the compass as a magnetism tester either, but I think it's a matter of knowing what you're looking at. As I understand, it's generally held over the balance, and you see the needle dancing if the watch is magnetized.

 

Otherwise, back when the Magnomatic was designed Greiner also made the Magnotest, a really cool device that will detect any magnetism at all. It's so sensitive that even "fully demagnetized" steel , even a tiny steel hairspring, will register something at the high sensitivity level. There's a modern version, Magnotest II (not cheap of course), and a slightly cheaper one from Horotec, about 650 / 450 respectively at Cousins. The current Magnotest says in the manual to turn it on for 20 minutes before use; I imagine so that it zeros out to its environment or something?- but the old one, with it's massive bronze core, works instantly.

 

You put the part on the window (where the dime is, dime for scale), then flick the lever at the bottom, which passes a coil back and forth under the part/watch. If there's magnetism the meter will indicate it, at level one it should remain motionless. Any magnetism will show as it rises toward the red. At level 2 it will register a little for any steel- I think it's to help see through thicker cases or something, but not sure. I'm sure Frank or Littlewatchshop can explain what's going on. B is battery check, for the 9v battery it runs on. Heaven forbid it get's left on, battery dies in a day or two!

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by nickelsilver

[JohnR725]

22 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

I've never really gotten the compass as a magnetism tester either, but I think it's a matter of knowing what you're looking at. As I understand, it's generally held over the balance, and you see the needle dancing if the watch is magnetized.

I think I posted an image somewhere before of how Omega used to recommend the compass but now it's all electronic stuff. Now you can get one unit that measures and then you can demagnetize. The thing that bothers me always with the compass is the compass should point at or be attracted to iron that seems like you should be attracted to the screws whether there magnetized or not.

So basically I never worry about it I just remember to try to put the watch on the demagnetizer.

[praezis]

Yes, I have a Magnotest, too and wonder how its old electronics still works fine. Its action is like a generator or a bicycle dynamo: a magnet passing a coil will generate a voltage.

I used it to show that Nivarox hairsprings can be magnetized here.

Frank

[nickelsilver]

1 hour ago, praezis said:

Yes, I have a Magnotest, too and wonder how its old electronics still works fine. Its action is like a generator or a bicycle dynamo: a magnet passing a coil will generate a voltage.

I used it to show that Nivarox hairsprings can be magnetized here.

Frank

Interesting thread, but I got rather lost even translating to English- what was the conclusion for Nivarox springs and magnetism? I was under the impression that they still perform more or less normally even if (lightly) magnetized?

 

As to Greiner and their old stuff, I am quite amazed how solid they are after many decades. Were they using Mil-spec components or something? And they made some cool stuff. Just got a Greiner mic that apparently does 6 positions automatically; not sure how it works (can't get it to do anything other than light up), a quick look inside topside shows a Greiner favorite, a Cerberus thyratron tube... haha.

[praezis]

1 minute ago, nickelsilver said:

 a quick look inside topside shows a Greiner favorite, a Cerberus thyratron tube... haha.

similar to their old hairspring vibrating unit…

Result was, they can be magnetized (hand fully right on Magnotest on position 1). And also fully demagntized. Rate was fast after 2nd magnet application however. After demag the before rate was fully restored.

Frank

[tomh207]

For detecting magnetism I have been trying out an app on my iPad called Lepsi. Seems to work well and simple to setup and use. I tried it out with a practice movement, not magnetised, magnetised it with my demagnetiser and then demagnetised it. The app correctly identified each of the states. Much better than a button compass as they can be affected by just a piece of steel.

 

Tom

[praezis]

If

9 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

Just got a Greiner mic that apparently does 6 positions automatically; not sure how it works (can't get it to do anything other than …

Send it to me, I wanted to examine one for a long time!

Frank

[nickelsilver]

2 hours ago, praezis said:

If

Send it to me, I wanted to examine one for a long time!

Frank

Ha, I almost wrote jokingly that I should send it to Karlsruhe for some detective work! I'll send it!

This is the beast

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by nickelsilver

[JohnR725]

22 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

This is the beast

You are a microphone reminded me of something. The actual microphone parts where you put the watch I have one of those just not the rest of the unit. I used to like to buy surplus stuff surplus electronic stuff when we used to have surplus electronic stuff stores. I purchased something ones that had that microphone and to really big coils which thinking about it now it must've been for picking up magnetic fields or maybe it was for generating fields I don't remember I think the coil is buried someplace in the attic I'll never find it in the machine knows where that is it's probably been disassembled centuries ago. I basically just wanted it for the microphone.

Then yes it's a bit odd that something like that would show up in Seattle.

2 hours ago, tomh207 said:

For detecting magnetism I have been trying out an app on my iPad called Lepsi.

I have seen that app before and it looked very promising for detecting magnetism.

I find myself that I don't really like smart phones I really enjoyed my flip phone because it could stay in my pocket off it was only for emergencies but the world forced me into a smart phone and android which is typically it's off. But when I got it I looked into's and found the one at the link below it also has a timing machine section but it wants me to plug in the sensor. I don't know if it's smart enough to know the difference between any USB sensor or whether it has to have its specific sensor. But the magnetic part does work when I bring it near anything that's a magnet it definitely response to that.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appnroll.accuracy

 

 

 

 

[VWatchie]

On 2/15/2023 at 3:00 PM, praezis said:

I used it to show that Nivarox hairsprings can be magnetized here.

Interesting, thanks!

On 2/15/2023 at 5:01 PM, tomh207 said:

magnetised it with my demagnetiser and then demagnetised it.

How would you do that?

On 2/15/2023 at 5:01 PM, tomh207 said:

For detecting magnetism I have been trying out an app on my iPad called Lepsi.

That's what I used when I bought my Elma AntiMag as seen in the following video:

 

[tomh207]

10 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Interesting, thanks!

How would you do that?

That's what I used when I bought my Elma AntiMag as seen in the following video:

 

I only have the cheap Chinese demagnetiser @VWatchie, just laying something ferrous on it and pressing the button will magnetise it.

 

Tom

[VWatchie]

So, yesterday I got my Greiner MagnOmatic, and let me tell you, this is NOT a toy!

I tested it by checking the magnetism on my Indian hand levers using the Lepsi app on my iPad, and as soon as I came within a 150mm radius of the sensor point it indicated magnetism. The strong magnetism was also evident when I tried to use these levers to remove the collet from a balance staff. The levers would stick so hard to the hairspring that it was difficult to remove them.

So, I placed the levers inside the MagnOmatic, pressed the button, felt a very distinct thump in my fingers, like the machine was trying to yank them away, then rotated the levers about 90 degrees and pressed the button again.

The result? Zero magnetism remaining! Even hoovering the levers a millimetre above and in the dead centre of the sensor point on the iPad indicated any magnetism, and when removing the collet the levers felt as magnetic as if they had been made of peg wood.

I've tried to demagnetize these levers (and tweezers) on my Elma Antimag many times, but only experienced a very vague difference if any in some cases.

I am truly happy I found this machine in the nick of time while only three minutes remaining on the auction and got it for a mere total of £115 including shipping. Had I bought it from Cousins it would have cost me £885 + Shipping + Import fees + VAT totalling approximately £1170. Perhaps a bit of compensation from the watch gods, for some of the many expensive deals I've done on used tools over the years.

Anyway, this is without a doubt, a truly professional demagnetizer. If you get the opportunity to acquire one for a reasonable price, do not hesitate to pull the trigger!

Edited February 18, 2023 by VWatchie

[nickelsilver]

While it will work just depressing and releasing the lever, it's designed that you should hold the lever down for a full second or two, then release.

 

And yes, it's no toy! Greiner has come out with an updated version, after a mere 60 years, apparently even stronger!

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 2/12/2023 at 10:35 PM, VWatchie said:

Thanks, @Endeavor I'll report back as soon as I've tested it.

For the time being I'm practising HS-manipulation whatever little time I have left over after work and family. Ay caramba, it is challenging! Especially when the spring is neither flat nor round.

Great fun isn't it watchie?  An essential learning curve though. I actually enjoy it, i must be rather odd

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

it's designed that you should hold the lever down for a full second or two, then release.

I had no idea. Thanks!

43 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Great fun isn't it watchie?

Yes, sort of, especially when you succeed. One of the springs I was using for practice was also entangled, but I managed to take care of it after having studied the technique used by Henry B. Fried in the following video. I was actually surprised to see that it was relatively easy.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

47 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

I had no idea. Thanks!

Yes, sort of, especially when you succeed. One of the springs I was using for practice was also entangled, but I managed to take care of it after having studied the technique used by Henry B. Fried in the following video. I was actually surprised to see that it was relatively easy.

 

I remember watching that about a year or so ago. He certainly doesn't pussy foot around with them. Its surprisingly how much punishment a modern spring can take can. Something old can fall apart just by looking at it. I had this a couple of months back, it remarkably survived quite well. 

[VWatchie]

When I bought my used Greiner Magnomatic I mostly thought about demagnetizing tweezers, screwdrivers, hand levers, etc.

Come to think of it, would it be safe to it use for demagnetizing watch movements, and if so, how would I place the movement or cased movement in the machine?

Considering how powerful it is I worry it might destroy the hairspring (or maybe I'm just being silly!?)

Is it a rule to let down the mainspring before demagnetizing?

 

[nickelsilver]

It's 100% designed for demagnetizing movements, cased or uncased. Hold it in the gap, zap, then I like to turn it over and 90 degrees and zap again. I've never had it hurt a hairspring (that's installed in a watch), including some very tiny movements. If demagnetizing a bare balance with spring, best to wrap it in tissue paper to keep the coils from jumping all over. In fact, if you get one of those weird watches that just doesn't want to fully demagnetize, (rare to happen if you have a Magnomatic), the balance-out-in-tissue-paper does the trick every time.

 

It's always fun checking the movement on the Greiner Magnotest before and after!