Ebay and "just serviced"...

[GuyMontag]

I take ebay listings with "serviced" descriptions with a grain of salt. At best, they have been competently COA'd and I have had a number that fall into this category. I would have thought that at worst, the watch would have been dunked in oil and called it a day. But I just received a $300 watch that was described as "just serviced" as well as "Flawless" and "super clean" that hasn't been serviced in decades. The case clamps are rusted on so the movement hasn't been out of the case in years.

I have to admit that I was 99% sure the watch hadn't been serviced when I bought it as I know where the seller got the watch from as I bid him up on another auction site and was the 2nd highest bidder on the lot, which included four other watches. He listed all five watches separately on ebay, all of them as "serviced", but based on when the auction he won ended and when he listed these watches on ebay, he would have had maybe 1 day to service all five watches.

I would have serviced it regardless but to just slap on "serviced" without even making an attempt, competent or not, is pretty galling. I'm curious if anyone here would even bother messaging the seller or would you just leave accurate and negative feedback and move on.

[lexacat]

I'd definitely leave negative feedback. What a goon that guy is.

[Marc]

6 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

I'm curious if anyone here would even bother messaging the seller or would you just leave accurate and negative feedback and move on.

I'd start by contacting the seller to see if I could get a reduction in the price since the item was clearly misrepresented / misdescribed, keeping the negative feedback option open.

[watchweasol]

Hi I am with Marc on this one. See if you can get a substantial reduction , stating the fact that it was not as described and in view of the work required to make serviceable. A broken jewel and a rusted clamp might only be the visible problems so far. When dismantled there may be others.  All the best and keep us posted.  

[JohnR725]

I've always wondered about the watches on eBay that claim they've been serviced. Often times a picture of the timing machine results and well they usually don't look good for a serviced watch. It's my understanding sometimes the definition of servicing means that they dumped the whole thing In lighter fluid and swish it around a little bit That's a servicing at least by some of them.

Then I agree with everyone the description isn't quite accurate See if you can get a price reduction.

Then I don't suppose you have a timing machine? Wind it up and send pictures the seller that it looks pathetic

Usually if you have a legitimate complaint sellers are happy to give a refund or a discount or something.

[LittleWatchShop]

I have gotten discounts or refunds. I purchased a set 12s hands and got 16s. Seller said to keep them and got a refund.

Never had a situation with a full watch.

[GuyMontag]

I messaged the seller, I'll see what he says.

 

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention that the entire package and the watch itself smelled like an ashtray and the bracelet was on backwards

Edited February 7, 2023 by GuyMontag

[mikepilk]

That looks terrible. Ask for compensation.  The only time I bought a "Serviced" watch, it looked like it had been dunked in oil.

I sell watches on ebay I advertise as Serviced. I provide timegrapher pics, a pic of the disassembled movement, and ask them to contact me if they want details of the work. 

[rehajm]

I'll repeat the advice to ask for a modification on price, especially if condition isn't like the photos..but I handle the dunked it in oil guys a bit differently. If they send on time and it looks like the photo they get positive feedback with a 'Not only did this seller deliver the watch on time as a bonus I received a free quart of oil...right in the watch!'  Perhaps you've seen one of my positive reviews?

Edited February 7, 2023 by rehajm

[GuyMontag]

Well, I got a reply. Here was how the conversation went:

 

Me:
This was was advertised as "just serviced" as well as "flawless" and "super clean". This watch hasn't been serviced in DECADES. It is filthy with rusted parts and smells like an ashtray. The photos show a jewel that hasn't been oiled in decades with caked on dried oil. All of the jewels are like this. Running the watch in this condition will destroy it. The case clamps are completely rusted on which means you could not have removed the movement from the case and therefore did not service it.

Part of the money that I paid for the watch was for the service you claimed had been done. Now I am going to have to pay for a real service, not to mention the cost of any other rusted parts that need to be replaced.

I would like a discount to help cover the cost of a proper service or I will return the watch for not being as described.

 

Him:
"you will not receive any discount , you me return the watch for a refund. demanding that things be done your way is reall not the way to go. the watch was serviced and is in excellent running condition. please open a claim for return of the watch.
any questions please feel free to be nice
jim"

 

Me:
You did not have this watch serviced. Period. No one has serviced this watch in decades. You lied in your description and the feedback I leave will let others know that you are not to be trusted.

 

Him:
again you threatening me to obtain a discount means nothing. please just send the watch back. with the email you sent threatening to leave a bad feedback is enough to get ebay to remove it.
do what you like i have offered a solution to you. your choice from here.
jim
and again {in your opinion} the watch was not serviced... thats just not the case. it was serviced, just not overhauled like you are depicting, please learn the difference
jim

 

Me:
I'm not threatening you. You said you didn't want to give me a discount on the price to cover a proper service. That's fine. I'm simply letting you know that you lied in your description of the item, I showed you the proof of the lie and you still continue to lie and I will mention that in my feedback. I will be reporting you to ebay for this as well.

Servicing a watch means you clean and oil it. That is industry standard. This watch wasn't cleaned as show by the rust and caked on oil. It wasn't oiled as all of the pivots are dry. As I said, running the watch in this condition will destroy it. I guess you think "service" means running a cloth over the crystal?

Edited February 7, 2023 by GuyMontag

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, GuyMontag said:

"you will not receive any discount , you me return the watch for a refund. demanding that things be done your way is reall not the way to go. the watch was serviced and is in excellent running condition. please open a claim for return of the watch.
any questions please feel free to be nice
jim"

Interesting response to your message. As I said it's a shame you don't have a timing machine because that would be real proof of it looks pathetic as opposed to visually looking at it where yes it does look pathetic.

As I don't sell things on eBay I don't know all the rules but I suspect that returning something is somehow better for them then a partial. I think if you send something back it's basically equivalent the canceling the sale which it is and I don't think you can give a review on a canceled sale.

 

 

[LittleWatchShop]

I would love to know who the seller is so that I can avoid him!!

[GuyMontag]

46 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Interesting response to your message. As I said it's a shame you don't have a timing machine because that would be real proof of it looks pathetic as opposed to visually looking at it where yes it does look pathetic.

As I don't sell things on eBay I don't know all the rules but I suspect that returning something is somehow better for them then a partial. I think if you send something back it's basically equivalent the canceling the sale which it is and I don't think you can give a review on a canceled sale.

 

 

The timegrapher was not bad for a watch that hadn't been serviced with about -30 seconds in dial up, 170 degrees amplitude and 0.4ms beat error, but in dial down the amplitude falls to 130 with similar rate and beat error. Of course, not acceptable for a serviced watch.

I think that if I ask for a refund for the item not being as described, that may somehow give the seller a ding internally from ebay's perspective, but I'm not sure on that.

 

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I would love to know who the seller is so that I can avoid him!!

I sent you a PM

[AndyHull]

I tend to take "recently serviced" or "good running order" or even "working" descriptions with a very large pinch of salt, unless the listing shows pictures of partial disassembly or a a timegrapher trace to support the claim.

Having said that, the fact that this example has such obvious flaws means there is absolutely no chance it was looked at. The rusted clamp alone would prevent me from considering selling the thing. The seller is completely unprofessional and dishonest in my opinion. As to sending the thing back and getting a refund, I would be wary of doing that too, as given their dishonesty, there is a good chance they would simply claim that they never received it, even though they had, and would withhold the refund on that ground.

Sadly there are plenty of dishonest sellers on ebay and else where.

[VWatchie]

Ukrainian seller? They always list their watches as "Serviced by Master Watchmaker". Of course, they NEVER are.

[JohnR725]

9 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

The timegrapher was not bad for a watch that hadn't been serviced with about -30 seconds in dial up, 170 degrees amplitude and 0.4ms beat error, but in dial down the amplitude falls to 130 with similar rate and beat error. Of course, not acceptable for a serviced watch.

Yes the amplitude of 170° and 130° when a fully wound up is not a good indication of proper servicing. Then you want to see something spectacular put the watch crown down and see how wonderful it looks. These are all things you want to get pictures of just in case when you're documenting the wonderful state of this watch.

[Swan]

Man, eBay is a wild place and there’s always risk. It can be really frustrating, but if you’re not happy, just get your money back, give bad feedback and get on the hunt again. I think it’s clear he doesn’t want to find a middle ground, but if you can get your money back, no big harm done (other than time of course). 

[KarlvonKoln]

I once took issue with the phrase "like new".  It seems like, on Ebay and elsewhere, the phrase "like new" became so common in its misuse that hardly anyone bats an eye at it now.  The  cognoscenti do not take it seriously; they ignore it and weigh other evidence.
I believe we should not let "just serviced" become yet another of these stock phrases that people expect to see and yet pay no attention to.  Such sellers need to be called out.  Service history is valuable information to us.  We need to know these things.  That knowledge often affects our decision to buy or not to buy.  
I think if a seller states "like new" then the object should perform like a new one, have no fewer flaws or defects than a new one, etc.  Or the seller should refund, and the review should spell out the discrepancy.  Same with "just serviced".  The seller should list the day that watch was serviced and by whom.  If they can't do so, then I personally would make an offer much lower and explain that I will offer more if they can tell me all about how and when the watch was serviced.  
Some things should not be just stock phrases that sellers use, but don't really mean.  I'd like a return to truth in advertising.  But then, I am perhaps too naive to be shopping on Ebay.

[watchweasol]

Hi Karl. Not naive just you have standards and expect others to have the same. EBay opens up a can of worms with mis information and downright bad practise and dishonesty and it buyer beware, with eBay there are many honest dealers who trade with care and have a reputation to up keep. Then there are others who are just after your cash and it’s a lottery as to what you get,they should be called out and rightly so. Unfortunately my experience with the arbitration service they offer is not good even when supplied with the evidence.  CAVEAT EMPTOR.     BUYER BEWARE.

[RichardHarris123]

Unfortunately Caveat emptor on ebay. 

[rossjackson01]

Hello GuyMontag

Just interested. What is the watch and movement?

What are you going to do? Return and get refund? Keep and get repair?

Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.

Ross

[spectre6000]

File a complaint with eBay. I believe the usually take the buyers' side in disputes, and this one is pretty black and white.

[GuyMontag]

4 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Hello GuyMontag

Just interested. What is the watch and movement?

What are you going to do? Return and get refund? Keep and get repair?

Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.

Ross

It's a Bulova 11ANACB. I'll be keeping it. I am trying to service it but can't get one of the case clamps off because of the rust. I've been applying WD40 to the screw over the last two days without any luck and the next step will be using a soldering iron to heat up the screw, hopefully that will help.

 

41 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

File a complaint with eBay. I believe the usually take the buyers' side in disputes, and this one is pretty black and white.

I left negative feedback but expect it to be removed. Because I first asked for a refund and then let him know that I will be leaving negative feedback, everything I've read seems to indicate that will be enough to have it removed. We'll see. I think going forward if I have a transaction that I think deserves a discount, instead of asking for one I will just contact the seller and let them know what the issue is and leave it at that. I think a seller that would be willing to offer a refund would offer it without being specifically asked. That way the option of negative feedback will still be on the table.

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

I left negative feedback but expect it to be removed

Don't worry your feedback is still there right now and he hasn't left a comment yet?

I see somebody else left a negative review it looks like what gets him in trouble is creative writing of descriptions basically suggesting things that may or may not be there.

As long as other watches for sale and they're not all been serviced some are just very clean and nice. Saw pocket watch that looks interesting as I said he uses creative writing because I'm confused about this one let me quote "Just off the service table, timed and very accurate +/- .0075 over 48 hours." I would be really curious as to how exactly that was measured timing machines don't measure that good and the pocket watch that has a secondhand that the best you can do is plus or -0.2 seconds and that number is much smaller so it's an impressive measurement that can't be done.

3 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

It's a Bulova 11ANACB

Then because I'm curious can you get a picture of your movement looking down at it in the case. Because I notice he has a picture of the movements for the sales but we can't see the case clamps at all which is quite interesting.

 

 

[GuyMontag]

I only left the feedback yesterday, I'm sure he is in the process of trying to have it removed. As I mentioned, I know where this watch came from. He won it with 4 other watches on another auction site, and he overpaid. He has all of the watches from that lot listed and all said they were "serviced".  I believe he is doing this so that he can price them higher than what they would normally be priced at so that he can recoup his money. He did manage to sell this one (again, "just serviced") and you can see all of the grime around the crystal.

 

 

In the original listing he framed and cropped the movement photo in such a way that you can't see the case clamps. Here is a photo. I was able to get the top case clamp off but no luck so far on the lower one (I tried heating the screw up with a soldering iron but no luck). I may have to just cut the head of the screw off or more likely if I can get a burr to fit between the movement and the movement ring I will section the clamp.

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by GuyMontag