My first true project watch. Really nice condition vintage Seiko 7006a. Non running.

[Marc]

38 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

Man does anybody have any advice on inserting an arbor into a barrel with the mainspring in it?

Grip the arbor in a pin vise. Go in at a slight angle so that one side of the arbor is in the inner coil and position the arbor so that the pivot is aligned with the hole in the barrel. Gently twist the pin vise against the direction of the main spring coil (anti-clockwise in this case) whilst bringing it up to perpendicular to the barrel. The twisting should gently open up the inner coil to allow the arbor to seat properly.

Practice......

[Birbdad]

19 minutes ago, Marc said:

Grip the arbor in a pin vise. Go in at a slight angle so that one side of the arbor is in the inner coil and position the arbor so that the pivot is aligned with the hole in the barrel. Gently twist the pin vise against the direction of the main spring coil (anti-clockwise in this case) whilst bringing it up to perpendicular to the barrel. The twisting should gently open up the inner coil to allow the arbor to seat properly.

Practice......

I don't have a pinvice but i do have something that should work just the same. That's a great call. The stability of using my tweezers seems to be the hardest part so that's a great idea. I need to get a proper pin vice.  I watch other watchmakers do it with tweezers and it just looks so effortless. 

But this barrel mystery is getting thicker and i'm a little baffled. I think i got a lot of junk parts cobbled together with no rhyme or reason or something. The 7s26a/7s26b/7006a barrel complete are the same part number. 

In this lot of junk parts were two barrels. One is a  7s26c clearly because i can see the different arbor pivot dimensions and the top cover for the barrel has a smaller hole to fit the smaller pivot of the C variant. The other looks identical but has an arbor that is a perfect match for my 7006a i'm working with here. But you can clearly see the teeth are a different profile and likely a different count. Top barrel is the 7006a which has ruined teeth, bottom right is mystery barrel with matching arbor for the 7006a and bottom left is a 7s26c barrel that won't fit. Weirdly the barrel on the bottom right does not fit either. THe arbor fits but the barrel teeth are too small. I can only conclude this is a 7s26a arbor and barrel top cover with a 7s26c barrel bottom cover? So strange...I guess i gotta start taking apart my other mystery 7s26 donor movements and look for one with these bigger pointier teeth in the hopes of finding an A or B variant. 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

41 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

As you can see the rim of the arbor where the hook is is a lot wider than the smallest coil of the mainspring. This is consistent with both mainsprings from the same movement i've messed with. It is just pure luck if i can get the damn thing in. It's driving me nuts! 

EDIT: I got the damn thing in right after i posted but no way was that best practice. I had to pull the end of the coil out with steel tweezers to get it over the f'ing hook.

 

I know a few put the arbor into a pinvice to aid with positioning and leverage. I cant say I've ever tried or had to do this. Normally if its tight i hold the arbor in position with tweezers or drop a vice held pin into the arbor screw hole to keep the arbor stable. Then just tweek the very end of the mainspring out and over the arbor hook. Making sure the arbor hook and coil hole slot are in line saves time. 

[Birbdad]

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

I know a few put the arbor into a pinvice to aid with positioning and leverage. I cant say I've ever tried or had to do this. Normally if its tight i hold the arbor in position with tweezers or drop a vice held pin into the arbor screw hole to keep the arbor stable. Then just tweek the very end of the mainspring out and over the arbor hook. Making sure the arbor hook and coil hole slot are in line saves time. 

ok, that's what i did last time. I sorta felt like it was bad for the mainspring. I do really need to go get some pin vices anyways.

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

ok, that's what i did last time. I sorta felt like it was bad for the mainspring. I do really need to go get some pin vices anyways.

Certainly a useful tool to have. Either way you are having to widen the inner coil to allow the arbor in. I do wonder if the pinvice could leave marks on the arbor that could scratch the lid hole. 

[Birbdad]

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Certainly a useful tool to have. Either way you are having to widen the inner coil to allow the arbor in. I do wonder if the pinvice could leave marks on the arbor that could scratch the lid hole. 

I dunno but far as i'm concerned these are all 3 sacraficial practice barrels if need be. I got aat least 4 or 5 more 7s26 donor movements and a 7006a donor watch i don't want to crack if i can help it because with a bit of polishing to get off the grandpa looking gold plating i think the watch could be pretty attractive

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Birbdad said:

I dunno but far as i'm concerned these are all 3 sacraficial practice barrels if need be. I got aat least 4 or 5 more 7s26 donor movements and a 7006a donor watch i don't want to crack if i can help it because with a bit of polishing to get off the grandpa looking gold plating i think the watch could be pretty attractive

Good to have spares Col. I'm sure grandpa would be pleased to have a nostalgic looking watch on his wrist. And it sounds like you might be a future forum Seiko expert at the rate you are going.

[Birbdad]

7 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Good to have spares Col. I'm sure grandpa would be pleased to have a nostalgic looking watch on his wrist. And it sounds like you might be a future forum Seiko expert at the rate you are going.

Well i am thinking about going to horology school. Actually drafting a post on it. 

[Birbdad]

Started digging around on my junk 7s26 movements to try to find a match for the barrel and was very pleased to find one. ALL of these movements are mismatches of parts from A, B, and C movements so I figured i'd post this in case people get confused like i did. @jdmIt might be worth it to update the google doc of 7s26 part compatabilities on the barrel. 
The 7s26a/7s26b barrel part number  201024 has a different tooth spacing and shape than the 7s26c barrel part number 201083 so the barrel itself and not just the arbor are incompatible across the versions of this movement.
It threw me off having in my junk movements a 7s26a/b arbor in a C barrel  and i couldn't figure out why the barrel wouldn't engage in the gear train.

Here's a pic of both versions of them. 
201024 on left and 201083 on right. The arbor pivot and tooth count/shape is different. 
Now that i got that squared away there's really nothing left for me to do till my mainspring winder, crystal and breaking grease gets here.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Birbdad

[Birbdad]

Alli have is a cape cod cloth but the case and crown polished up pretty nicely. I didn't want to go too crazy on it since this model i don't think ever had a super lustrous finish. Every example i've seen was some sort of lightly textured semi matte something or other. It's gonna look gorgeous all put together i think.

[Birbdad]

Well i was able to get the new mainspring out of teh scavenged barrel without it exploding and flying across the room this time so i'm proud of that. Maybe @thor447can tell me what i'm looking at here. Two of what i assume are the same mainspring from the same part number barrel complete but look very different. 
Top is the original one from the watch that exploded across the room and likely dates back to the mid 70's. 
Bottom is the newer one scavenged out of a parts movement that is from a 7s26 and probably a lot newer.

As far as the general shape of them can you tell me which one is in better shape as far as is less worn out?

Also a picture of my workstation and supervisor who's napping on the job.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Birbdad

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Birbdad said:

Well i was able to get the new mainspring out of teh scavenged barrel without it exploding and flying across the room this time so i'm proud of that. Maybe @thor447can tell me what i'm looking at here. Two of what i assume are the same mainspring from the same part number barrel complete but look very different. 
Top is the original one from the watch that exploded across the room and likely dates back to the mid 70's. 
Bottom is the newer one scavenged out of a parts movement that is from a 7s26 and probably a lot newer.

As far as the general shape of them can you tell me which one is in better shape as far as is less worn out?

Also a picture of my workstation and supervisor who's napping on the job.

Eyup col. Quite unrelated but i think those blue mats have magnets inside them.

[Birbdad]

1 minute ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Eyup col. Quite unrelated but i think those blue mats have magnets inside them.

Actually not this one. I made sure to order the version without it. 

They are however utter crap and i do not recommend them. They collect dust and flotsam and lint and tiny hairs and they stick to it like glue. I FINALLY broke down and got a proper bergeon green mat that should be here before the weekend. I"m actually pretty excited about it. 

[RichardHarris123]

4 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

Actually not this one. I made sure to order the version without it. 

They are however utter crap and i do not recommend them. They collect dust and flotsam and lint and tiny hairs and they stick to it like glue. I FINALLY broke down and got a proper bergeon green mat that should be here before the weekend. I"m actually pretty excited about it. 

And parrot feathers. Hehe. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

Actually not this one. I made sure to order the version without it. 

They are however utter crap and i do not recommend them. They collect dust and flotsam and lint and tiny hairs and they stick to it like glue. I FINALLY broke down and got a proper bergeon green mat that should be here before the weekend. I"m actually pretty excited about it. 

I originally had the same mat that didnt state on it but was magnetic.  Same problems you have just mentioned,  bloody awful and waaaay to bouncy. 

[Birbdad]

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I originally had the same mat that didnt state on it but was magnetic.  Same problems you have just mentioned,  bloody awful and waaaay to bouncy. 

Yeah this seller had two different once. This one they specifically marketed towards watch repair was sans magnet. I would be fine with it if it didn't collect junk so easily 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Birbdad

[kd8tzc]

5 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

And parrot feathers

I have similar problem with Golden Retriever fur.  It seems each time I work on something and have my magnifier glasses on, I see this long piece of dog hair.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, kd8tzc said:

I have similar problem with Golden Retriever fur.  It seems each time I work on something and have my magnifier glasses on, I see this long piece of dog hair.

Thats magnification for you,the next stage is ocd cleanliness. I was happy before i knew how dirty things really are. 

[LittleWatchShop]

9 hours ago, Birbdad said:

Top is the original one from the watch that exploded across the room and likely dates back to the mid 70's.

This one looks right

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Birbdad said:

Yeah this seller had two different once. This one they specifically marketed towards watch repair was sans magnet. I would be fine with it if it didn't collect junk so easily 

Everything sticks to them and they are a bugger to wipe down. Mine has been in a draw for over a year. I work on a sheet of A4 card now on top of a large sheet of architect's green drawing board cover. The card comes in handy for making notes, then after I've finished the card gets filed and I start  a new one with the next project

[thor447]

10 hours ago, Birbdad said:

Well i was able to get the new mainspring out of teh scavenged barrel without it exploding and flying across the room this time so i'm proud of that. Maybe @thor447can tell me what i'm looking at here. Two of what i assume are the same mainspring from the same part number barrel complete but look very different. 
Top is the original one from the watch that exploded across the room and likely dates back to the mid 70's. 
Bottom is the newer one scavenged out of a parts movement that is from a 7s26 and probably a lot newer.

As far as the general shape of them can you tell me which one is in better shape as far as is less worn out?

Also a picture of my workstation and supervisor who's napping on the job.

Top one looks correct.

[Birbdad]

8 hours ago, thor447 said:

Top one looks correct.

 

10 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

This one looks right

Awesome. Appreciate ya guys. 
What about the bottom one? Does it look used up enough that i shouldn't even use it at all? i need a sacraficial lamb to practice using my winder on and if that bottom one is toast i might as well practice with it.

10 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Everything sticks to them and they are a bugger to wipe down. Mine has been in a draw for over a year. I work on a sheet of A4 card now on top of a large sheet of architect's green drawing board cover. The card comes in handy for making notes, then after I've finished the card gets filed and I start  a new one with the next project

Interesting. Since i'm trying to get serious with it i went ahead and bought the bergeon. Everybody says this particular one i got is expensive but worth every penny and probably will last forever. Cousins package arrives tomorrow most likely!

[LittleWatchShop]

2 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

What about the bottom one?

If it is my watch...I would use it.

[thor447]

2 hours ago, Birbdad said:

 

Awesome. Appreciate ya guys. 
What about the bottom one? Does it look used up enough that i shouldn't even use it at all? i need a sacraficial lamb to practice using my winder on and if that bottom one is toast i might as well practice with it.

Interesting. Since i'm trying to get serious with it i went ahead and bought the bergeon. Everybody says this particular one i got is expensive but worth every penny and probably will last forever. Cousins package arrives tomorrow most likely!

The curve on the outer end of that spring is gone.  It'd make a perfect spring for winding practice.  If it could be avoided, I wouldn't use it in a watch if there was a better option available, which you appear to have in the top spring.

[Birbdad]

1 minute ago, thor447 said:

The curve on the outer end of that spring is gone.  It'd make a perfect spring for winding practice.  If it could be avoided, I wouldn't use it in a watch if there was a better option available, which you appear to have in the top spring.

I"m pretty sure i have a handful of other spares available i just haven't removed themf rom their barrels. I will use that one as my first victim. Thanks !