Worked on my first fusee watch today. By far the most difficult part is dealing with those brass taper pins, looking for a better way.

[GregG]

I worked on my first fusee watch today.  I'm happy to report that I didn't snap the chain.  I'm waiting for some taper pins to come in the mail, whenever the Royal Mail sorts out that malware attack.

But removing the existing taper pins is what really was a pain in the butt.  Some of them had almost nothing to grab onto to remove.  Some were slotted in a way that made it difficult to maneuver my tweezers to grab.  But specifically the fusee cone is what was the most difficult. 

The taper pin that held it together was filed flush on both sides so there was nothing to grab onto.  I ended up finally being able to drive it out using one of my smaller screwdriver blades as a punch, but it was hard to try and keep the thing upright on its edge while I hammered it out.

What are your recommendations for removing taper pins?

Edited February 5, 2023 by GregG

[JohnR725]

I don't suppose the pin in the fusee was copper color?

Then the fruit of the brass pins in the plate I use a 15 a or something equivalent cutting tweezers. I'm not trying to cut the Pin but you can reach in with cutting type tweezers and grab the Pin as long as you're careful you can usually pull the pin out because otherwise as you found trying to pry it out from the backside is very difficult if not impossible sometimes.

[oldhippy]

I used old tweezers split in half and shaped them to fit so I could get behind the narrow point of the pin and push back. You will find adapting old tools helps a lot when coming across new problems. Fusee pocket watches are for experts in horology certainly when it comes to anything with the escapement.    

[GregG]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I don't suppose the pin in the fusee was copper color?

Then the fruit of the brass pins in the plate I use a 15 a or something equivalent cutting tweezers. I'm not trying to cut the Pin but you can reach in with cutting type tweezers and grab the Pin as long as you're careful you can usually pull the pin out because otherwise as you found trying to pry it out from the backside is very difficult if not impossible sometimes.

Now that you mention it, they did seem to be copper in color.  Though it's hard to tell since they're so dirty.  Some of them were undeniably brass, but this one I could envision being copper.  I will look onto cutting tweezers.  Thank you.

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

I used old tweezers split in half and shaped them to fit so I could get behind the narrow point of the pin and push back. You will find adapting old tools helps a lot when coming across new problems. Fusee pocket watches are for experts in horology certainly when it comes to anything with the escapement.    

We all have to start somewhere!  

[oldhippy]

Agree. What I'm getting a on here I have seem members that have said they opened up there automatic watch and decided to get it going. Reading posts like that makes me cringe because they can't possibly know what they are doing. 

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, GregG said:

copper in color.

The reason it's copper color is because it's supposed to be made out of copper.

I'm attaching an image out of  Donald DeCarle's book on practical watch repair.  The pin is supposed to be  copper so it can be driven out as it explains the book. Unfortunately it's not always copper because people don't have the book and it ends up being all sorts of other things.  And sometimes it's barely tapered at all so you have to try both sides to figure out which way it might be to get the thing out..

[GregG]

Thank you for the image.  I've had the book for some time now but skipped over the chapter since I hadn't done a fusee watch till just now.  Completely forgot it was in there haha.

Giving something delicate a whack with a hammer seems to be a way to potentially destroy something, so if possible, I'd like to avoid that.  I'm sure I could always rig up something simple to hold the fusee cone while I gently tap it out.

When reassembling, does the taper pin need to be filed flush with the arbor?  Because at least with the one I'm working on, the arbor rests in the pivot, and the area below the shoulder never contacts anything.  So why make it harder for future diassemblies?

[JohnR725]

9 hours ago, GregG said:

When reassembling, does the taper pin need to be filed flush with the arbor?

I don't think it really matters as long as it doesn't hit anything. It probably doesn't even in real life have to be copper as long as somebody get it back out again some day. Then sometimes even if it doesn't hit it's also recessed which doesn't give you a lot of room for sliding and stuff anyway.

[oldhippy]

With some there can be a little grove for the pin, besides you do not want an unsightly  pin to be sticking out, it should also be tidy both ends. After all these years in horology I have never found or learned any tricks when it comes to repairing these pocket watches. 

 

[GregG]

7 hours ago, oldhippy said:

 besides you do not want an unsightly  pin to be sticking out

 

I think those slight imperfections are what give the watch character.  

Especially on old watches, the hand-engraved stuff connects you with an art spanning hundreds of years.

[oldhippy]

Imperfections would  not be there in the first place. People took pride in there work.

[GregG]

54 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Imperfections would  not be there in the first place. People took pride in there work.

Imperfections as in: not created by a computerized machine.  

[oldhippy]

You should look at some of the very early pocket watches and clocks. You will see engraved and saw piercing on parts that are not visible to the naked eye. You might ask why did they do such things when you can’t see them. The answer is because they could and they took pride in their work. Unlike to day with mass production and the I don’t give a f**k if it works or not as long as I get my money.

[GregG]

Ok I think this topic has run its course.  The first two responses are what I needed to know.  Thank you both for the help!

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, oldhippy said:

You might ask why did they do such things when you can’t see them. The answer is because they could and they took pride in their work.

This is why have always liked early English watches there always beautiful. Somebody took a lot of time and effort into making something very pretty.

8 hours ago, GregG said:

Ok I think this topic has run its course.

I think there's another way that you can do this? Just as you're supposed to give thumbs up for answers you like I think there's some way as the person asking the question you can mark that an answer has been received. But as I never ask questions I don't know how to actually do that.

[oldhippy]

It's been an interesting topic and I agree I think its reached its end.