Another stopper!!!

[transporter]

Ok here goes, 1700’s strike movement, serviced including a few bushes required. End and side shake all good on all arbor assemblies.
New gut line fitted and all is well, that is until there are 8 winds left on the going train great wheel.

When it gets to this point it stops! Been on test for 3 weeks and it stops at the same place each time.

There is power going to the escape wheel as if moved it flicks back nicely, if I swing the pendulum it will tick for a few minutes max and then stop again.

Im going to remove the dial and hands tomorrow and see if there is a problem around the motion works etc. Although as the movement runs for a good 4 days without any problems striking correctly and keeps fantastic time I’m at a loss as to where else to look for a possible problem. 
So over to the forum members for any other experience on what else it could be. 
cheers

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by transporter

[oldhippy]

It's been some time that this clock has been serviced just look at all the dust. The barrel arbor on the strike side I can see light through it so some wear there. A full service is what I recommend. If you just want to try and sort out why it stops, I would just have the going train working, when it stops you have very little to look at to pin point the problem. 

[transporter]

It’s actually been 4 weeks since it was serviced!these photos are just for reference.
I’m just wondering why if anyone else has had the same or similar problem with a movement that rus fine for a set period then stops what the cause was on their particular movement, as at the moment I’m not finding anything that could be the cause 

[oldhippy]

4 weeks and all that dust? hasn't it been in its case. To save time I think it will help you saving time if you just have the time side going. What are the pallets like, escape wheel teeth, any burr on them, check all teeth, pinons, pivots and pivot holes, make sure the pivots are burnished. also check that all of the train runs evenly as this can cause the depth of teeth and pinon to mesh wrong this will cause hang ups. By doing this you do not have the hassle of wondering if the strike side has anything to to do with the stopping. Make sure it stands on a solid floor and not on carpet or near where people walk by.  

[transporter]

The photos are before the service, all required bushing has been done and pivots polished/burnished .
Escape wheel teeth fine, pallets polished.

The movement is on the test stand in my rest room and not disturbed. It runs fine keeping good time and striking as it should with no stoppages for 4 days then stops with 8 turns of gut line left on the great wheel. 
Been doing this for 4 weeks so struggling to work out what might be the cause.

So wondering if any others have had anything similar.

[oldhippy]

I no this is a daft question. Are you sure you have the barrels correct? After 4 days then it has to be something to do with the barrel and the depth with the center wheel pinon, you need to double check that. It must be something to do with those two wheels. I assume the line winds up correctly, or is it one of those movement that have smooth barrels. Make sure this part of the center wheel is burnished and the hole.

Edited January 29, 2023 by oldhippy

[transporter]

Both barrels are correctly sited, I don’t mix any trains etc when cleaning each train is done separately throughout the service.

I have if you look at the photo wound the free end of the gut line around a piece of wood ( thus shortening it by a few inches ) and started the pendulum again and it’s been running now for nearly an hour with no dramas????

As for the centre wheel, yes that was bushed and polished  during the service , both endshake and sideshake tested with plates pinned together as was the depthing on the whole of each train. 
id like to add a video but the forum won’t allow me too.

[oldhippy]

Lines should be the correct length.  You can use a piece of peg wood and tie the gut around it so the line won't slip through the hole, it is not the way I would do it but I can't put into words the way I was taught. What you have looks very messy. I always used nylon coated lines as I can see the gut is already fraying.  

[watchweasol]

In such a case as this I always reduce everything to a minimum. As OldHippy said just assemble the going train and if you can do not assemble the front levers for the strike, even leave off the hour and min wheels. If that works ok then you have halve£ the problem if not the investigation continues, Having rebushed several wheels re check the depthing and shakes end and side and go through it bit by bit.  I have a clock that works ok out of the case and some times in the case, it’s on the bench again awaiting me to finish the gardening, they c an be a PIA but half the fun is finding the problem.  It’s a bit of a trawl but good luck.  Cheers

[Bod]

7 hours ago, transporter said:

The photos are before the service, all required bushing has been done and pivots polished/burnished .
Escape wheel teeth fine, pallets polished.

The movement is on the test stand in my rest room and not disturbed. It runs fine keeping good time and striking as it should with no stoppages for 4 days then stops with 8 turns of gut line left on the great wheel. 
Been doing this for 4 weeks so struggling to work out what might be the cause.

So wondering if any others have had anything similar.

On day 4, how close to the floor are the weights?

Bod

[oldhippy]

They both should unwind and both should be at the same height, after 4 days should be about half way down. 

[transporter]

9 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Lines should be the correct length.  You can use a piece of peg wood and tie the gut around it so the line won't slip through the hole, it is not the way I would do it but I can't put into words the way I was taught. What you have looks very messy. I always used nylon coated lines as I can see the gut is already fraying.  

With regard to this, both lines are the correct length. And yes the tying off of the line is the usual loop over loop with a bite to hold it in place. The rather untidy job I have done there is a 2 sec. Experiment which seems to of got the train working all day today since I lifted the weight be approx 2”. 
As for The gut line fraying it’s brand new from cousins and has been on the clock for the 4 weeks of testing .

8 hours ago, watchweasol said:

In such a case as this I always reduce everything to a minimum. As OldHippy said just assemble the going train and if you can do not assemble the front levers for the strike, even leave off the hour and min wheels. If that works ok then you have halve£ the problem if not the investigation continues, Having rebushed several wheels re check the depthing and shakes end and side and go through it bit by bit.  I have a clock that works ok out of the case and some times in the case, it’s on the bench again awaiting me to finish the gardening, they c an be a PIA but half the fun is finding the problem.  It’s a bit of a trawl but good luck.  Cheers

Yes I ran the clock with the strike side inactive, so no interference from that train. It seems strange that it will run for days fine so all the train wheels have rotated more than once. I’ll keep looking for the cause though 

3 hours ago, Bod said:

On day 4, how close to the floor are the weights?

Bod

Bod, tell me your experience as yes the weight is approx 4” off the floor when it stops ( I’ve got the movement on my shorter test horse )  so disregard that I wouldn’t get another 8 turns off the wheel as is , I just adjust the length for the line to compensate for the lack of height.
so what are you thinking ???

[oldhippy]

If that line is only 4 weeks old and as it is starting fraying I would send it back. 

[watchweasol]

Hi. The lines should rundown untill they hit the deck and then the clock stops due to lack of power, my cuckoo clock does the same. You seem to have a bind in the mech some where. So it still does it without the strike train in . Just checking , are both the weights the same, try adding a little more weight as a temp measure and see if it overcomes the problem, one more thing did you polish the insides of the bushes ( smoothing broach) , all pivots straight and polished, is the train free without the weight attached,  I wonder if the problem might be the gut line or the drum, does it always stop in the same place. Run the clock and when it stops mark the drum with a sharpie wind up and start again and check the stopping point, might just be the line is tight in the groove on the drum at a specific point.  Forgive the ramble just punting some possibles as it’s a bit inconsistent but intreuiging.    Cheers.

[Bod]

19 hours ago, transporter said:

 

Bod, tell me your experience as yes the weight is approx 4” off the floor when it stops ( I’ve got the movement on my shorter test horse )  so disregard that I wouldn’t get another 8 turns off the wheel as is , I just adjust the length for the line to compensate for the lack of height.
so what are you thinking ???

I was once taught, that with a difficult problem, "Back to basics"

Lawn mower won't start, has it got petrol?

Clock won't run, is it wound up?

Sometimes it's so simple, it gets over looked.

 

Bod

[transporter]

THURSDAY DISEASE!!!!! 

just saying

[Bod]

I know I'm a bit late with this, but I've just heard this idea.

If a Grandfather clock is not fixed to the wall, it may stop at day 4, because the weights start to swing with the pendulum, when the travel of the weights, equals the pendulum length, everything is in sync, so the clock stops, or falls over.

Now if the OP's test rig is not totally solid, then the same might be happening.

 

Bod

[transporter]

5 minutes ago, Bod said:

I know I'm a bit late with this, but I've just heard this idea.

If a Grandfather clock is not fixed to the wall, it may stop at day 4, because the weights start to swing with the pendulum, when the travel of the weights, equals the pendulum length, everything is in sync, so the clock stops, or falls over.

Now if the OP's test rig is not totally solid, then the same might be happening.

 

Bod

Bod, cheers for your input, if you look at my last post on this subject you’ll see that I got it ( Thursday disease ) which is exactly what you have said, I’m glad you put your answer down though so that others may learn 

[oldhippy]

When you have the problem of swinging weights it is always best to fix the case to the wall. Longcase clocks should never be standing on a carpet without fixing. The weights can hit the door, I have come across one the door would no close properly and the weight would rest on the ledge of the door. Pendulums that do not swing properly they wobble will also cause problems so always replace the s/spring with a new one.