Hands stuck on NOS dial

[GuyMontag]

I'm trying to get the hands off of this NOS dial and not quite sure how. I initially treated it like a regular dial and used hand levers but they wouldn't come off. Looking under a scope and it's clear why; there is a "rod" of some sort running through the hands to the back of the dial that is is capped on the dial side and the cap has a larger diameter than the holes in the hands. The rod is fixed on the underside with a washer. I'm guessing it's friction fitted and I *think* I'm supposed to lever that washer off but wanted to confirm and also ask how I should support the dial/hands so they don't scratch the dial when I lever off the washer.

 

[LittleWatchShop]

What in the tarnation is this movement???

[GuyMontag]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. There is no movement involved, it's just a NOS dial I bought to replace the dial the watch came with as it had a big dent in it. It's how the hands were affixed to the dial out of the package.

 

[LittleWatchShop]

Ooooohhh!  So this is just a means to hold the hands together with the dial...a temporary thing. Never seen this, but my experience is limited.  Just pry off the back side releasing the hand set from the dial, then remove the hands from the post in the direction of the back side.

I am just hazarding a guess here...

[lexacat]

I'm thinking a presto tool would remove that washer under the dial. 

[GuyMontag]

  

5 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Ooooohhh!  So this is just a means to hold the hands together with the dial...a temporary thing. Never seen this, but my experience is limited.  Just pry off the back side releasing the hand set from the dial, then remove the hands from the post in the direction of the back side.

I am just hazarding a guess here...

 

 

Yes, that is my thoughts too. It does seem like removing the hands like normal with hand levers vs. flipping the dial over and removing the washer (with hand levers) is six of one and half a dozen of the other. But those hands did *not* want to come off when I was using the hand levers (I could almost feel them starting to bend). So I assume the same will be the case if I flip the dial over and try and remove the washer.

I think I'm just a little freaked out about ruining this NOS dial/hands after going through the trouble of sourcing it because the old dial is already knackered and was hoping someone has run across this setup before.

Edited January 27, 2023 by GuyMontag

[LittleWatchShop]

23 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

What in the tarnation is this movement???

[GuyMontag]

1 minute ago, lexacat said:

I'm thinking a presto tool would remove that washer under the dial. 

I'm liking this idea. I think I will give that a shot.

[LittleWatchShop]

1 minute ago, GuyMontag said:

I think I'm just a little freaked out about ruining this NOS dial/hands after going through the trouble of sourcing it because the old dial is already knackered and was hoping someone has run across this setup before.

Agree!!! I would be too.  What was Bulova thinking?  I am in contact with a Bulova dealer...you want me to ask?

[GuyMontag]

5 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

My grandma (along with Jed Clampett) used that one a lot

 

  

11 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Agree!!! I would be too.  What was Bulova thinking?  I am in contact with a Bulova dealer...you want me to ask?

Sure, I'd love to hear an answer from Bulova. I bought 4 NOS dials on ebay and have used one before this and it was really straightforward, nothing like this oddness.

Edited January 27, 2023 by GuyMontag

[LittleWatchShop]

15 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

My grandma (along with Jed Clampett) used that one a lot

 

  

Sure, I'd love to hear an answer from Bulova. I bought 4 NOS dials on ebay and have used one before this and it was really straightforward, nothing like this oddness.

He carries the Bulova line and has never seen this.

 

[GuyMontag]

That was quick! I'm going to check my other NOS dials and see if they have this configuration too.

 

EDIT: so I have 4 more NOS Bulova dials (all 1970's) and they all have this arrangement. However, on all four all of the washers are completely flush with the dial so it looks like I moved the washer when trying to lever the hands off so I guess I just need to fully commit and get them off.

Edited January 27, 2023 by GuyMontag

[lexacat]

3 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

That was quick! I'm going to check my other NOS dials and see if they have this configuration too.

Presto tool worked?

[LittleWatchShop]

3 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

That was quick! I'm going to check my other NOS dials and see if they have this configuration too.

He is a FB friend...and stays up late...lol

[GuyMontag]

5 minutes ago, lexacat said:

Presto tool worked?

I've had a couple of ales tonight and I've learned the hard way that it's safest to wait until the morning for even the "simplest" things when it comes to working on watches.

[LittleWatchShop]

3 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

I've had a couple of ales tonight

I have answered your questions after two shots of Jameson...lol

[GuyMontag]

29 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I have answered your questions after two shots of Jameson...lol

Even watchmakers need lubrication!

[thor447]

I wish my microscope camera took pictures that nice.  Are you using any other lighting aside from a ring light around the microscope lens?

[HectorLooi]

6 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

I'm trying to get the hands off of this NOS dial and not quite sure how. I initially treated it like a regular dial and used hand levers but they wouldn't come off. Looking under a scope and it's clear why; there is a "rod" of some sort running through the hands to the back of the dial that is is capped on the dial side and the cap has a larger diameter than the holes in the hands. The rod is fixed on the underside with a washer. I'm guessing it's friction fitted and I *think* I'm supposed to lever that washer off but wanted to confirm and also ask how I should support the dial/hands so they don't scratch the dial when I lever off the washer.

When all else fails, a diamond bur in a highspeed drill always works.

[watchweasol]

As these were NOS dials, my guess they were from demo watches that have no movement just the dial and hands fitted and cased to look like the real thing. I think what you have got is that some one has bought a lot of these and stripped the cases to be sold separately and the dial and hands also. So cutting the holding stem from the back and removing the hands and dial would be ok, protecting the back whilst cutting the washers off.

[GuyMontag]

11 hours ago, thor447 said:

I wish my microscope camera took pictures that nice.  Are you using any other lighting aside from a ring light around the microscope lens?

Yes, I also use an Amscope goose neck LED. Even with this light I still need to change the exposure when I zoom in. I tend to have it at 0 to +8 when fully zoomed out and around +13 when fully zoomed in.

 

 

14 hours ago, lexacat said:

Presto tool worked?

It did! the washer popped right off. Unfortunately, where the hour hand was sitting, the lume from the hand had fused to the dial and left a blob of hardened lume on the dial. I was able to remove it with some q-tips and soapy water but it left a discoloration on the dial, which is a bummer as it pretty much defeats the purpose of me getting a NOS dial. Oh well.

Edited January 27, 2023 by GuyMontag

[Geotex]

@watchweasol hit the nail on the head, and the giveaway is the time that is showing: 8:18 - see the photo of some demo watch cases with the hands all set the same way.

In salesman samples from the Benrus/Belforte/Sovereign group a plastic disk substitutes for the movement. The stem is always just a threaded rod, but the crown can sometimes be salvaged. It's a mixed bag as far as the rest - the hands are usually unusable but the dial may be OK. However, in later versions I've seen sample dials that have had the feet removed as part of the process, so you sometimes get to deal with that even if the face of the dial comes out clean... They weren't ever meant to be used as a source of repair parts, but we do what we can 60 years later!

[GuyMontag]

3 hours ago, Geotex said:

They weren't ever meant to be used as a source of repair parts, but we do what we can 60 years later!

 

I also found out that the dial feet are not even in the right spot. I'm 99% sure this dial was only ever used on this one model so it doesn't make sense that it would have the feet in the wrong spot if it was ever meant to be used. The second hand tube was broken off but I was able to use the hour and minute hands. All in all, not a great purchase