Grandad’s Waltham

[Swan]

Just wanted to share current progress on my grandfather’s pocket watch handed down to me. After following Mark’s courses and working in a practice movement, I felt competent enough to have a go at servicing this. 

[KarlvonKoln]

It looks like you've kept your dismantling procedure very organized, well planned-out.  And you've taken pictures along the way.  All of that is always tremendously important, especially if we ever work on an unfamiliar movement that may have eccentricities in its construction.  If it comes apart in that particular order, it will more easily go back together in that order, and less time will be spent staring at some little part trying to recall where in this great mess of parts this little one belongs.  Headaches are no fun.
My own grandfathers never wore a watch, that we know of, and I still haven't learned what became of the watch my great-grandfather, the tailor, carried hidden in his pocket in every photo we have of him.  So you have a greater treasure than I, and I shall be checking back on this and cheering you on.  Keep us informed on the progress.  Show us pictures at the end.  Good luck!

[Swan]

Thanks for the message! Indeed, trying to photograph every step maybe bein gover-cautios, but I think a better way for a beginner to tackle it! Everything is now cleaned (by hand - not taken the step for any clenaing machine yet) and waiting for a replacemant mainspring before it starts going back together. Just sniffing around for a timegrapher now....it's a slippery slope!

[Swan]

Just to update, really took my time on this one, but finally the movement is back together as of today! Really enjoyed the learning exercise and (maybe with it being an American movement) threw up a few surprises. Interesting to see different solutions to challenges than compared to the classic Swiss style I worked on so far. 
 

Next is to give the case a little TLC, but think I can get away with using the original crystal etc. so happy i could keep it original. 

[JohnR725]

8 minutes ago, Swan said:

(maybe with it being an American movement) threw up a few surprises. Interesting to see different solutions to challenges than compared to the classic Swiss style I worked on so far. 

Outstanding on the quantity of the pictures you took as it does avoid unpleasant surprises later on. I snipped out something from one ear images. You notice I circled location and that there is a something sticking out there? One of the problems with American pocket watches and you can see that in the image when the watches out of the case the stem is no longer in the movement and the watch goes to setting mode. The problem with being in setting mode is when it's running your driving the hands and all of the setting mechanism and you really don't want to be doing that. Especially if you have it on the timing machine it's better if you would be in the winding mode. So with a lot of American pocket watches they put something in like this part did you can pull out and it will return the watch to winding mode for running out of the case.

Then on the timing machine the rate looks good at least in this position but your amplitude is low and your beat is extremely high. Usually to get the amplitude writes on a vintage watch you need to figure out what the lift angle is probably does not default to 52.

[Swan]

Ah man, that’s super helpful thanks!! Honestly I took that part out and returned after cleaning, but could not for the life of me figure out what it was!! Really appreciate the comment. 
 

it’s just back together today so will hope to start with the regulating this week and try to sort the beat error. I kept the original mainspring, guess that could be contributing to the low amplitude? 
 

Cheers!

I want to give the case a bit of a ‘spruce up’. It’s only gold plated so conscious to not use anything to heavy…anyone have some tips? I was thinking to use ‘Brasso’ or something similar, just a mild metal polish, but interested to hear if anyone has some tips/experience. 

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Swan said:

I kept the original mainspring, guess that could be contributing to the low amplitude? 

It depends upon the condition of the original mainspring? In other words if it's a blued steel spring and you took it out and it opened up to a circle a couple inches in diameter yes It is set. But you do a lot of testing adjusting of the timekeeping etc. which I usually like to do before I clean the watch if I can sometimes are so dirty you can't. But with a set mainspring the watch will run but it won't have any life. In other words you run out of energy really fast and the watch may not even be running 24 hours from now.

Then the problem with Waltham mainsprings and their steel barrel is the modern mainspring just never catches. I had a 12 size last week at work it wouldn't catch because the opening wasn't physically large enough. Then even if the opening is big enough the modern Springs are just punched out they don't have that little bit a taper they can see at the image and they definitely do not have the little bend. So the likelihood of getting a modern spring to stay in place is practically zero auto Waltham. Ideally seem to find something off of eBay

also when you're looking at your watch on the timing machine ideally should look at a dial up or dial down interview really lazy one crown position like crown down. Because the watch will always look good resting on the end of the pivot versus turning it to any of the crown positions where you going to always lose some amplitude and you don't have a lot of amplitude to work with. Plus just for the fun of it wait 24 hours and time the watch again and see what it looks like.

 

[Swan]

Thanks again for taking the time to write such a helpful reply. Really appreciate you making that effort. 

Happy to read what you say about the mainspring. I did order a replacement via a store on eBay. It was supposed to be for this movement, but I had exactly the issue you mention. I didn’t actually try to put it in the barrel as one look told me they were very different and it wasn’t going to catch. 
 

Thanks again for the advice, I will find some time to get stuck into it this week and keep you posted! 

[LittleWatchShop]

On 2/5/2023 at 1:57 PM, JohnR725 said:

It depends upon the condition of the original mainspring? In other words if it's a blued steel spring and you took it out and it opened up to a circle a couple inches in diameter yes It is set. But you do a lot of testing adjusting of the timekeeping etc. which I usually like to do before I clean the watch if I can sometimes are so dirty you can't. But with a set mainspring the watch will run but it won't have any life. In other words you run out of energy really fast and the watch may not even be running 24 hours from now.

Then the problem with Waltham mainsprings and their steel barrel is the modern mainspring just never catches. I had a 12 size last week at work it wouldn't catch because the opening wasn't physically large enough. Then even if the opening is big enough the modern Springs are just punched out they don't have that little bit a taper they can see at the image and they definitely do not have the little bend. So the likelihood of getting a modern spring to stay in place is practically zero auto Waltham. Ideally seem to find something off of eBay

also when you're looking at your watch on the timing machine ideally should look at a dial up or dial down interview really lazy one crown position like crown down. Because the watch will always look good resting on the end of the pivot versus turning it to any of the crown positions where you going to always lose some amplitude and you don't have a lot of amplitude to work with. Plus just for the fun of it wait 24 hours and time the watch again and see what it looks like.

 

Well, this was timely.  I have a similar (perhaps identical) issue on a Cyma I am servicing.  I have opened up the end of the spring so that it can catch the barrel hook, but it still slips.  The spring I took out was turned back in order to make a robust catch.  I am wondering if I will have to do it on this Cyma.  Never done it before, but assuming I need to hit it with a torch to anneal it then bend it back.

[Nucejoe]

 Outstanding is the word.

I think Mark would enjoy seeing the good work you have done here. Teachers always do. You are likely to make an A. 

Rgds