Twisted hairspring

[BrehmerR]

Hello!

I am working on a nice Omega cal 503 in pretty good condition. There is however some technical issues with the hairspring. It is pretty aggressively curling upwards when the balance assembly is mounted in the movement. I first thought that it was the height of the stud in the balance cock but adjusting that didn't change anything. Neither did moving the regulatior change anything. From the looks of it, I think that the hairspring might be slightly bent upwards right at the stud. can anyone confirm this or perhaps tell me if I'm wrong and what the best way to fix it is.  I am not a very experienced watchmaker and I don't have a super sophisticated toolset. I haven't manipulated tons of mainsprings before but I have a fairly steady hand(; 

Below are some pictures on how the mainspring curls upward. When mounted in the movement, it looks like the coils are bunched really close but in fact, they are not. It's just that it curls upwards. The hairspring doesn't seem to be bent outward or inward but only upward according to me.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[Neverenoughwatches]

21 minutes ago, BrehmerR said:

Hello!

I am working on a nice Omega cal 503 in pretty good condition. There is however some technical issues with the hairspring. It is pretty aggressively curling upwards when the balance assembly is mounted in the movement. I first thought that it was the height of the stud in the balance cock but adjusting that didn't change anything. Neither did moving the regulatior change anything. From the looks of it, I think that the hairspring might be slightly bent upwards right at the stud. can anyone confirm this or perhaps tell me if I'm wrong and what the best way to fix it is.  I am not a very experienced watchmaker and I don't have a super sophisticated toolset. I haven't manipulated tons of mainsprings before but I have a fairly steady hand(; 

Below are some pictures on how the mainspring curls upward. When mounted in the movement, it looks like the coils are bunched really close but in fact, they are not. It's just that it curls upwards. The hairspring doesn't seem to be bent outward or inward but only upward according to me.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Looks reasonable off the cock. When holding the balance wheel horizontal up to the eye does the stud look straight up and down ? Checking is visually better with the hairspring unmounted off the balance, if you feel ok removing it.

2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Looks reasonable off the cock. When holding the balance wheel horizontal up to the eye does the stud look straight up and down ? Checking is visually better with the hairspring unmounted off the balance, if you feel ok removing it.

When in the movement is just one side lifting and the other side dipping ? Check all contact points of the hairspring. The stud , the regulator pins and the collet.

[nickelsilver]

The stud is clearly tilted in the straight-down photo, and corresponds exactly to its behavior in the watch. A bend like that is pretty much always adjusted with the balance in the watch, making the adjustment right next to the stud. There isn't much space for tweezers there though on this caliber (swing the regulator away from the stud for a bit more access); in some cases you might have to get it close with the balance out, even overshooting a bit, then finalize in the watch. As it sits, the tweezers- which should be very excellent condition #4 or #5, will need to tilt toward the cock to make the adjustment. Best is tilt, with tweezers slightly open but in position on the spring, then squeeze. Grabbing then tilting will almost certainly make things worse.

 

But if you haven't done such an adjustment, I would recommend practicing on some cheap movements first. This is a very nice watch, and if parts are out there they won't be cheap. And even if you find a balance complete, it will 99% of the time need some hairspring adjustment in the watch.

Edited December 2, 2022 by nickelsilver

[Neverenoughwatches]

38 minutes ago, BrehmerR said:

Hello!

I am working on a nice Omega cal 503 in pretty good condition. There is however some technical issues with the hairspring. It is pretty aggressively curling upwards when the balance assembly is mounted in the movement. I first thought that it was the height of the stud in the balance cock but adjusting that didn't change anything. Neither did moving the regulatior change anything. From the looks of it, I think that the hairspring might be slightly bent upwards right at the stud. can anyone confirm this or perhaps tell me if I'm wrong and what the best way to fix it is.  I am not a very experienced watchmaker and I don't have a super sophisticated toolset. I haven't manipulated tons of mainsprings before but I have a fairly steady hand(; 

Below are some pictures on how the mainspring curls upward. When mounted in the movement, it looks like the coils are bunched really close but in fact, they are not. It's just that it curls upwards. The hairspring doesn't seem to be bent outward or inward but only upward according to me.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Is this the correct hs ? The terminal curve looks very short

4 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Is this the correct hs ? The terminal curve looks very short

Sorry nope forget that i was zoomed in and didnt see the rest of the photo . Actually while at it i was mistaken maybe because the end curve could do with tweeking out a bit to make parallel. 

56 minutes ago, BrehmerR said:

Hello!

I am working on a nice Omega cal 503 in pretty good condition. There is however some technical issues with the hairspring. It is pretty aggressively curling upwards when the balance assembly is mounted in the movement. I first thought that it was the height of the stud in the balance cock but adjusting that didn't change anything. Neither did moving the regulatior change anything. From the looks of it, I think that the hairspring might be slightly bent upwards right at the stud. can anyone confirm this or perhaps tell me if I'm wrong and what the best way to fix it is.  I am not a very experienced watchmaker and I don't have a super sophisticated toolset. I haven't manipulated tons of mainsprings before but I have a fairly steady hand(; 

Below are some pictures on how the mainspring curls upward. When mounted in the movement, it looks like the coils are bunched really close but in fact, they are not. It's just that it curls upwards. The hairspring doesn't seem to be bent outward or inward but only upward according to me.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

As nickelsilver says, trying to adjust out of the movement will only give a rough idea of where you are at with it. Adjusting in the  movement each manipulation effect is seen straight away. The tweezer method that nickelsilver describes i only discovered myself last week while untangling a pot of noodles as AndyH described it. Holding then twisting can result in at least another correction needed. We'll call the difficult ones a chinese side order.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[BrehmerR]

3 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

The stud is clearly tilted in the straight-down photo, and corresponds exactly to its behavior in the watch. A bend like that is pretty much always adjusted with the balance in the watch, making the adjustment right next to the stud. There isn't much space for tweezers there though on this caliber (swing the regulator away from the stud for a bit more access); in some cases you might have to get it close with the balance out, even overshooting a bit, then finalize in the watch. As it sits, the tweezers- which should be very excellent condition #4 or #5, will need to tilt toward the cock to make the adjustment. Best is tilt, with tweezers slightly open but in position on the spring, then squeeze. Grabbing then tilting will almost certainly make things worse.

 

But if you haven't done such an adjustment, I would recommend practicing on some cheap movements first. This is a very nice watch, and if parts are out there they won't be cheap. And even if you find a balance complete, it will 99% of the time need some hairspring adjustment in the watch.

I did manage to find some replacements but like you said, they sure aren't cheap... 
I didn't really quite understand the last part you mentioned however. The positioning of my tweezers and the method of straightening the mainspring. I have never used that method before so I don't really know where to start. If you happen to have some sort of picture showing what you mean on hand, that would be appreciated. 
I got the whole part about the assembly being in the movement. That part definitely makes a lot of sense. 

My interpretation of the problem was that I would have to push the mainspring downward right at the stud while mounted in the watch to bend it back down. I don't understand how this can be accomplished while tilting the tweezers toward the cock. Perhaps i am missing something/:

Thanks though for the answer! Just confirming that the twisted stud was the issue feels good!

[nickelsilver]

The hairspring is twisted at the stud. You need to twist it in a manner that will bring it down 180 degrees from the stud. You will have the tweezers in position, like if you were about to grab the hairspring, but not squeezing yet. They will be tilted in the direction you want the hairspring to go down, then when you close them, the spring will twist. Sorry I don't have any photos or images to show.

[Nucejoe]

The stud should stand prependicular to the coil, which clearly isn't in your watch, adjustment is best done exactly as Master Nickelsilver instructed.

Make a habbit of adjusting the coil before you start reassembly, In general , if you just put the cock with balance attached( and no other part) on the mainplate) , you will have easier access to the coil.

As is reassembled you should  level the coil by manipulating near the stud only, do not get far from the stud, about 1/2 to 1 mm away from the stud at the most.

As said a new balance complete might need adjustment too.

Good luck.

[BrehmerR]

7 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

The stud should stand prependicular to the coil, which clearly isn't in your watch, adjustment is best done exactly as Master Nickelsilver instructed.

Make a habbit of adjusting the coil before you start reassembly, In general , if you just put the cock with balance attached( and no other part) on the mainplate) , you will have easier access to the coil.

As is reassembled you should  level the coil by manipulating near the stud only, do not get far from the stud, about 1/2 to 1 mm away from the stud at the most.

As said a new balance complete might need adjustment too.

Good luck.

 

7 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

The hairspring is twisted at the stud. You need to twist it in a manner that will bring it down 180 degrees from the stud. You will have the tweezers in position, like if you were about to grab the hairspring, but not squeezing yet. They will be tilted in the direction you want the hairspring to go down, then when you close them, the spring will twist. Sorry I don't have any photos or images to show.

Alright!
I will give it a shot and keep you updated on how it goes!

[JohnR725]

20 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

But if you haven't done such an adjustment, I would recommend practicing on some cheap movements first. This is a very nice watch, and if parts are out there they won't be cheap. And even if you find a balance complete, it will 99% of the time need some hairspring adjustment in the watch.

17 hours ago, BrehmerR said:

I have never used that method before so I don't really know where to start. If you happen to have some sort of picture showing what you mean on hand, that would be appreciated.

Watch repair is a lot like learning to become a doctor it involves a lot of practicing. So like learning to become a doctor it's best not to practice on live patients as well our expenses are less than real patients if they should die. But replacement balance completes expensive. To get good at hairsprings you need lots of practice need to find something cheap and disposable because bad things can happen when you're learning with hairsprings.

[Nucejoe]

On 12/2/2022 at 3:02 PM, nickelsilver said:

But if you haven't done such an adjustment, I would recommend practicing on some cheap movements first. This is a very nice watch, and if parts are out there they won't be cheap. And even if you find a balance complete, it will 99% of the time need some hairspring adjustment in the watch.

Good advice as usual. 

Not my first bad advice either. 

Rgds

[Woolshire]

How did this turn out? I just read this for the first time and I think it is/was a combo issue. Looks like the stud is too far up into the hole AND the stud is slightly crooked.

[BrehmerR]

On 1/3/2023 at 1:52 AM, Woolshire said:

How did this turn out? I just read this for the first time and I think it is/was a combo issue. Looks like the stud is too far up into the hole AND the stud is slightly crooked.

It turned out pretty well. The amount of adjustment needed was very minimal so, really, it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. It certainly worked at least(:

It looks more or less like what a hairspring is supposed to look like now. 

All I can say is thanks to everyone who helped(: