Renata balance wheel question

[fussbudget]

Hi,

I'm very very new to all this, still in the sooooo many parts stage! Please be gentle

I bought a couple of watches to take apart, learn and try to fix, one is labelled Josmar:

I liked the style of the face and the 'patina'

It has a Baumgartner BFG 800 pin lever movement.

https://17jewels.info/movements/b/baumgartner/baumgartner-800/

I guess it was dropped, the upper pivot has broken off the balance shaft, I don't think there's any damage to the jewels fortunately. I found somewhere which sells replacement complete Renata balance wheels as I'm a long way off being able to change a balance shaft!

https://www.cousinsuk.com/PDF/categories/8316_Renata Balance Page 11-15.pdf

The catalogue lists two; 62 and 63 for BFG 800, but what does " a dgt. " and " a pl " mean? I assume they're abbreviations for something?

Many thanks for any help, Andy

[watchweasol]

Hi Andy   I have the catalogues but it does not explain the abreviations,.     remember these are swiss publications and therefore  are in their language.     But on the tech sheet there are two balances  complete  one is for a balance with a jeweled roller and the other with a brass finger. So before ordering you need to check and see which it is.   I have attached the tech sheet for the BFG 866 to give you some idea.

2529_BFG 866,866.31.7.pdf

Hi Just gone through all my Renata cat's   a dgt    =    avec doigt      (finger)   and      pl  =  plateau   (roller). 

[Neverenoughwatches]

34 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Andy   I have the catalogues but it does not explain the abreviations,.     remember these are swiss publications and therefore  are in their language.     But on the tech sheet there are two balances  complete  one is for a balance with a jeweled roller and the other with a brass finger. So before ordering you need to check and see which it is.   I have attached the tech sheet for the BFG 866 to give you some idea.

2529_BFG 866,866.31.7.pdf 3.21 MB · 1 download

Hi Just gone through all my Renata cat's   a dgt    =    avec doigt      (finger)   and      pl  =  plateau   (roller). 

Pretty sure this is relating to the guard finger on the fork of the lever. The roller has a notch that the finger skims through as it switches from one side of the staff to the other. Its a shock protection feature. The pl - plateau i would suggest means the roller has no notch and the fork has no guard finger. Coincidentally i was polishing the finger sides to contact the roller with less friction, i might add just for fun . 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[fussbudget]

44 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Andy   I have the catalogues but it does not explain the abreviations,.     remember these are swiss publications and therefore  are in their language.     But on the tech sheet there are two balances  complete  one is for a balance with a jeweled roller and the other with a brass finger. So before ordering you need to check and see which it is.   I have attached the tech sheet for the BFG 866 to give you some idea.

2529_BFG 866,866.31.7.pdf 3.21 MB · 1 download

Hi Just gone through all my Renata cat's   a dgt    =    avec doigt      (finger)   and      pl  =  plateau   (roller). 

Thank you, that's greatl! My school boy French was failing me trying to find anything

14 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Pretty sure this is relating to the guard finger on the fork of the lever. The roller has a notch that the finger skims through as it switches from one side of the staff to the other. Its a shock protection feature. The pl - plateau i would suggest means the roller has no notch and the fork has no guard finger. Coincidentally i was polishing the finger sides to contact the roller with less friction, i might add just for fun . 

Thank you! That makes sense, there is a brass finger on the lever, so it looks like 'avec doigt' then

Andy

[Neverenoughwatches]

15 hours ago, fussbudget said:

Thank you, that's greatl! My school boy French was failing me trying to find anything

Thank you! That makes sense, there is a brass finger on the lever, so it looks like 'avec doigt' then

Andy

Eyup fuss, something got me thinking about the lever. i have an update on this for you. Just been looking though the bestfit catalog.  There are balance staffs that have a finger as opposed to a roller, non relative to a gaurd finger on the lever. Never seen one of these on a movement so you might want to look into that first. A staff with a roller has the guard finger of the lever on the bottom of the fork as in all modern modern and all old movements that I've seen up to now.  A staff with a finger instead of a roller  has the guard finger of the lever facing uppermost with the fork underneath it. Something before impulse jewels. Hope this makes sense

Edited November 16, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches
Added extra info.

[fussbudget]

On 11/16/2022 at 5:43 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Eyup fuss, something got me thinking about the lever. i have an update on this for you. Just been looking though the bestfit catalog.  There are balance staffs that have a finger as opposed to a roller, non relative to a gaurd finger on the lever. Never seen one of these on a movement so you might want to look into that first. A staff with a roller has the guard finger of the lever on the bottom of the fork as in all modern modern and all old movements that I've seen up to now.  A staff with a finger instead of a roller  has the guard finger of the lever facing uppermost with the fork underneath it. Something before impulse jewels. Hope this makes sense

Thank you, for more information! Sorry for the delay, trying to get clear photos of small parts....

The lever does have a finger on the bottom of the fork:

and the balance has a roller with notch:

so I think that means the balance I need is 62 'avec doigt'.  I guess I'll order one and see

Cheers, Andy

[Neverenoughwatches]

19 minutes ago, fussbudget said:

Thank you, for more information! Sorry for the delay, trying to get clear photos of small parts....

The lever does have a finger on the bottom of the fork:

and the balance has a roller with notch:

so I think that means the balance I need is 62 'avec doigt'.  I guess I'll order one and see

Cheers, Andy

Haha. No mate i dont think so. Doigt is finger, finger on the staff . Yours has an impulse jewel. Maybe getting confused here , so lets go through it again. There are 2 fingers, a guard finger on the lever and a staff finger instead of a roller and impulse jewel. You want a roller = plateau.  . This is what avec doigt looks like. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[fussbudget]

3 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha. No mate i dont think so. Doigt is finger, finger on the staff . Yours has an impulse jewel. Maybe getting confused here , so lets go through it again. There are 2 fingers, a guard finger on the lever and a staff finger instead of a roller and impulse jewel. You want a roller = plateau. 

Aaaah so many new terms to learn  This is why I put up photos, thank you.

Andy

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

Just now, fussbudget said:

Aaaah so many new terms to learn  This is why I put up photos, thank you.

Andy

 

 

Just now, fussbudget said:

Aaaah so many new terms to learn  This is why I put up photos, thank you.

Andy

 

To be honest i have not come across a staff with a brass finger as yet. As far as i know the guard finger on the lever is above the fork with this. So a quick recognition as soon as you look at the lever to say " oh no can i get a new staff for this if i need one "