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Anybody print the barrel closer that's floating around the internet?


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https://www.printables.com/en/model/230373-barrel-closing-tool-for-watch-movements/comments 
Specifically talking about this guy. A friend got a very expensive resin printer, I know NOTHING about this but i am a 3d modeler so i will be designing a couple tools which i'll post here in the future including a double sided tool for setting seiko diashock springs. Anyways he printed this out for me and he's not sure why but it doesn't appear to have come out the correct size and can't actually close a barrel. The diameter of the cap on the one he printed is .975 inches. Does anybody have the bergeon barrel closer this is a copy of handy and can measure the diameter of the cap so we can figure out what we have to scale this thing to to get it work?

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@Birbdad

hopefully this will help

top part

outside diameter 25mm

inside diameter 22mm

arbour hole 3mm

overall height 14.25mm

depth of central cavity 9.75mm

 

base part

core outside diameter 21.5mm

base outside diameter 25mm

base height 4mm

overall height 16.5mm

arbour hole 3mm

top of core is convex, centre is approximately 1.3mm lower than overall height measured to the edge of the top of the core

 

Tom

Sorry, autocorrect gave me convex, it should of course be concave

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3 hours ago, tomh207 said:

@Birbdad

hopefully this will help

top part

outside diameter 25mm

inside diameter 22mm

arbour hole 3mm

overall height 14.25mm

depth of central cavity 9.75mm

 

base part

core outside diameter 21.5mm

base outside diameter 25mm

base height 4mm

overall height 16.5mm

arbour hole 3mm

top of core is convex, centre is approximately 1.3mm lower than overall height measured to the edge of the top of the core

 

Tom

Sorry, autocorrect gave me convex, it should of course be concave

Interesting. So it is the correct size, it just is a crap tool and doesn't work haha. Not yours, the one i had printed.

 

9 hours ago, Kalanag said:

The inside surface of the upper part must be domed to ensure pressure on the outer edge of the barrel lid.

Yeah this one does not have that that i can see.

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16 hours ago, Birbdad said:

Interesting. So it is the correct size, it just is a crap tool and doesn't work haha. Not yours, the one i had printed.

so I'm confused the tool is crap or your printing is crap or your printing of the tool is crap or something else?

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On 11/14/2022 at 7:14 AM, tomh207 said:

@Birbdad

Dimensions

Ok this is amazing. This will make things so much easier!

 

 

20 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

so I'm confused the tool is crap or your printing is crap or your printing of the tool is crap or something else?

I think this guys design is crap haha. This could open a pocket watch barrel but it's not even close to being able to open a normal watch barrel. When i put the barrel in and put the top on there's so much space between the flatceiling of the top and the cavity in the bottom the barrel just rattles around in the thing. THe printing itself came out perfect.
IMG_20221115_235927.thumb.jpg.405abc886c5090b4560134c7afb76933.jpg

On 11/14/2022 at 3:34 AM, Kalanag said:

The inside surface of the upper part must be domed to ensure pressure on the outer edge of the barrel lid.

So messing aroudn with redesigning it and looking at vids of the bergeon one, it appears the ceiling of the inside of the top part is flat. 

You're saying both sides are  domed/concave? It feels like the top surface should be flat since it feels like that's putting a lot of pressure on the teeth of the barrel. On this guys design the bottom part is domed but not the top.

Edited by Birbdad
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On 11/14/2022 at 1:34 AM, Kalanag said:

The inside surface of the upper part must be domed to ensure pressure on the outer edge of the barrel lid.

I was being confused I would normally agree but is that really how the tool is supposed to be used? I normally don't use the tool can as I'm trying the close pocket watch barrels and they just won't fit in the one that we have at work. I was looking to see if I had dimensions anywhere because this is a school project they make it at school or can make it at school like the PDF that's attached.

But it brings up a problem I snipped out an image tool doesn't exactly work the way I thought it was supposed to work.

Then found a video shows using the tool.

https://youtu.be/FIM2LZ1JEBY

mainspring barrel closer use.JPG

Wostep Barrol closer CCF12182012_0001.pdf

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wait wait wait @Birbdad. You trying to open or close the barrel? That item is for closing the barrel, there's no tool for opening it. That being said, why not just buy the closing tool? They're less than $10?

You can't open a Seiko barrel like the guys show on YT, you'll bend the top cover. You'll have to gently separate the two halves using a sharp knife or small sharp screwdriver. It takes practice to do that without marring the barrel.

Edited by gbyleveldt
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2 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

wait wait wait @Birbdad. You trying to open or close the barrel? That item is for closing the barrel, there's no tool for opening it. That being said, why not just buy the closing tool? They're less than $10?

You can't open a Seiko barrel like the guys show on YT, you'll bend the top cover. You'll have to gently separate the two halves using a sharp knife or small sharp screwdriver. It takes practice to do that without marring the barrel.

You're on the ball today matey, beat me to it, i think Col just got opening for closing mixed up though.

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9 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

wait wait wait @Birbdad. You trying to open or close the barrel? That item is for closing the barrel, there's no tool for opening it. That being said, why not just buy the closing tool? They're less than $10?

You can't open a Seiko barrel like the guys show on YT, you'll bend the top cover. You'll have to gently separate the two halves using a sharp knife or small sharp screwdriver. It takes practice to do that without marring the barrel.

Whut, i'm tryin to close it XD if i typed open that was a mistake.

And the bergeon tool is 40 bucks because of course it is. Where are you seeing this for 10? 

really my buddy wanted to test out his fancy new resin printer and this is free.

13 hours ago, tomh207 said:

Mine it is the core of the base part that is concave on top

Yeah that's what i figured. It looks like whoever modeled this one made the concave part too deep and the side walls of the top part too long so the flat top of the top portion doesn't contact the barrel.

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22 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Lol Col . Knock 30 bucks off that and you have a bergeon one that doesn't have 30 bucks worth of Bergeon lettering spelling out the name Bergeon. 🙂

But the word bergeon is what makes it a REAL tool!

I have plans to model and 3d print a tool for setting diashock springs. I"m going to model the word bergeon into it so it works better.

23 hours ago, grsnovi said:

Just measured my Bergeon 7922.

 

bergeon 7922.jpg

Oh fantastic! I'll pass it along!

Edited by Birbdad
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6 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha. If thats true then I'm having Bergeon tattooed on my forehead this weekend. 

I tattooed it elsewhere. The misses is pleased.
 

 

On 11/16/2022 at 4:47 PM, grsnovi said:

Just measured my Bergeon 7922.

 

bergeon 7922.jpg

Hey this is great. Maybe it's not clear but is the 1mm the width of the hole for the arbor there or is that the depth of the concave in the top of the core?

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1 hour ago, Birbdad said:


 

 

Hey this is great. Maybe it's not clear but is the 1mm the width of the hole for the arbor there or is that the depth of the concave in the top of the core?

As per the dimensions I posted the holes are 3mm, the depth of the concave surface on mine is approximately 1.3mm. Gary has posted his measurements and the depth of his concave surface measures to be 1mm

 

Tom

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Yes, the hole through both pieces is 3mm. The depth of the concave was "estimated" to be 1mm since I don't really have an exact way to measure that. Based on the design I doubt there would be a functional difference between a depth of 1mm v. a depth of 1.3mm. I used to have a routine that would allow me to calculate the radius required to cut a diameter based on three points but I wasn't in the mood for trying to dig that out. Not sure how the 1.3mm was determined since there is no material at the center point of the depth.

Also, I didn't measure the ID of the upper piece as it will need to be 21.5mm plus whatever the nominal slip fit clearance needs to be. Again, if the top doesn't have an exact slip fit it will not impact the function of the design.

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1 minute ago, grsnovi said:

Yes, the hole through both pieces is 3mm. The depth of the concave was "estimated" to be 1mm since I don't really have an exact way to measure that. Based on the design I doubt there would be a functional difference between a depth of 1mm v. a depth of 1.3mm. I used to have a routine that would allow me to calculate the radius required to cut a diameter based on three points but I wasn't in the mood for trying to dig that out. Not sure how the 1.3mm was determined since there is no material at the center point of the depth.

Also, I didn't measure the ID of the upper piece as it will need to be 21.5mm plus whatever the nominal slip fit clearance needs to be. Again, if the top doesn't have an exact slip fit it will not impact the function of the design.

Hey Gary, it was an approximate measure as I could use the depth measurements using my calliper which gave me the depth with one part on the edge and the “stick” on the edge of the hole. Hence approximate.

 

Tom

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3 hours ago, tomh207 said:

it was an approximate measure

Hi Tom,

Mine too but I laid a steel rule across the top and then used the extended end of my caliper but I just eye-balled it and figured 1mm was close enough for gov't work 🙂 

- Gary

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