Jacot tool, is this one any good and worth considering ??

[Endeavor]

Hello all and @nickelsilver

I have this (brass?) Jacot tool on my bench, no storage box to it. It seems for the untrained eye in reasonable good condition. No rust to speak of, all the screws do work fine, both centers on either side are open, the drive wheel rotates freely and everything slides fine.

It has two long-shafts (by lack of the correct name) and one short shaft sits inserted in the tool. On the long-shafts, underneath the copper protection caps, are two disk with small holes. One of those disk has damage on the edge and hole #10 is gone/damaged.

I guess it's German (quality?)

Here some pictures of the tool and it would be nice to know if this tool is in working- / usable-condition & perhaps an estimated value ?

I wrote the stamped sizes on a piece of paper.

Hope to hear your comments .....

Thanks

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Endeavor

[nickelsilver]

Looks like a nice tool. The three shafts are the runners, the short one is specially made for working on long 4th wheel pivots. The slotted ends are the beds, and the markings on the beds should correspond to pivot sizes; as I understand it there were some tools made where the numbers are arbitrary, but generally not. Depending on the tool the number might be the actual pivot size you will make when the burnisher stops contacting the pivot, or it might make the pivot slightly smaller to fit a jewel of the marked size.

 

These are intended for use with steel or carbide burnishers. Neither will appreciably wear the tool beds even with frequent use- but- often in the past they may have been used with stones or other abrasive tools (like sapphire tools). You should be able to discern grinding marks on the beds that are "factory", in which case you can pretty much rest assured the tool wasn't abused. Using abrasives on this tool is a big no-no.

 

The discs are called lanterns, and are used when working on the pivot ends. A chip here or there isn't the end of the world, as you just need a hole that will pass the pivot through enough to access it with the burnisher. Yours should be fine.

 

These tools were made as matched sets, and will almost always have a number on the frame and then numbers on the runners that correspond. In some cases the runners might just have the last digit or last two from the frame number.

 

You will need a burnisher and a means to drive the pulley, I highly recommend the Bergeon carbide burnisher model 2933G. G is for gauche, or left in French, but it is actually for right hand use on a Jacot tool. They aren't cheap, so if you look for a secondhand one beware that some older ones have a rather large radius for conical pivots and might only be useful for large pocket watch staffs. The current ones (and ones made in the last 20-30 years for sure) have a 0.2mm radius which is small enough for even tiny staffs and still works well on larger pivots. To drive it, traditionally you would use a bow. I use a bow, with light fishing line. Another fine way to drive it is with a piece of elastic, with fishing line attached, and a ring at the end of that. Attach the elastic back on the bench behind the tool (which will be in a vice), wrap the line around the pulley, and pull on the ring to drive it.

[oldhippy]

I don't see the bow which is used to power the tool. 

[Endeavor]

@nickelsilver

Thank you very much for your excellent explanation and teaching me the correct names of the tool and parts thereof. I've looked already on YT for some videos.

There are no numbers to be found on the tool itself neither on the runners. On the bottom of the tool it says Germany but the name "Meisterwerk" suggested this already.

Even though there are no numbers, judging the color of the copper-alloy from the tool and the runners, they all fully match up and the fit is perfect.

As said, for the untrained eye, there is nothing that I can find which looks odd, out of shape and everything seems to slide & operate smooth and very well.

The beds also seem to have the original factory machine / grinding markings, which would than suggest that the took is properly used.

As for the burnisher, I'm left handed and will drive the tool with my right hand, so I have to look for a LH usage burnisher. In my case that would be the RH 2933D than?. CousinsUK is out of stock of the "G" model, but has the 4.5mm, 165mm long "D" model with a edge radius of 0.1mm. Indeed, they don't come for free, just shy of £100 ex. 25% VAT

Is there anything else I need, apart from the bow and the burnisher? (just seeing Old Hippy comments; no there is no bow to it but those bows seem easy enough to construct and I do have strong fishing line)

The one question which remains, trying to add all the cost, what would be a fair price to pay for this tool?

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Endeavor

[nickelsilver]

It's hard to put a value on it. I have several, all Steiner (Horia now), and paid as low as 70 bucks for a basic set, which was a terrific deal, to several hundred for a larger set, which I also considered a good deal. A friend of mine recently got a large set Steiner for about 350 and was happy with that price. Steiner do go for a premium; I would say a set like yours, without a box, really should be under 100 and closer to 50. Getting over 100 I recommend trying to wait out for a deal on a Steiner.

 

Yes, if you will be holding the burnisher in the left hand you will want the "D" model (droit). The reason for the confusion, as far as I can tell, is the naming came about with the idea that the tool would be used on the underside of a pivot being spun in a lathe, which reverses things. The difference is the location of the radius and the slant on the non-radius side, which is slanted so that a true square shoulder can be made.

 

You might get lucky and find a Favorite burnisher. These have a carbide rectangle with 3 different radii and one flat edge, and can be flipped end for end in the handle for right or left hand use.

[Endeavor]

@nickelsilverThanks a lot for you excellent help !

 

[mikepilk]

Mine didn't come with a bow. I tried making one from a wire coat hanger, but I found it fiddly.

What I use now, and it works really well, is a retractable pass holder. I hook it to the base, wrap it round the spindle, then when you pull, it winds back in.

 

[nickelsilver]

What Mike has done with the retractable pass holder is basically what I was trying to describe with the elastic. It really does work well, and I think is a little easier to manipulate than a bow when you're trying to master the burnisher and all as well at the same time!

[oldhippy]

String very thin or a strong threat is what you use not elastic. Elastic won't get you anywhere as you know it stretches which is one thing you don't want.   

[mikepilk]

51 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

String very thin or a strong threat is what you use not elastic. Elastic won't get you anywhere as you know it stretches which is one thing you don't want.   

The retractable pass holder uses strong thread, which is wound back in to the holder by a spring.

[oldhippy]

I don't know anything about a pass holder. 

[KarlvonKoln]

I use a pass holder for my Jacot tool also.  My first one was just a cheap kind that everyone uses to hold their door key card or their work ID.  And it worked fine, but I learned that the cord had a sort of fabric-weave covering over it that began to wear.  I located a retractable pass holder that uses a plastic coated steel cable, and that has been wearing a lot longer so far.  I still may make a bow for it, as a back-up and just to learn how to do it that way.

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 11/13/2022 at 7:57 AM, oldhippy said:

String very thin or a strong threat is what you use not elastic. Elastic won't get you anywhere as you know it stretches which is one thing you don't want.   

Eyup OH. Nicklesilver was meaning the elastic is for the retracting aspect, it allows the drive string that is attached to the elastic to pull forward and then return. Similar to the retractable pass holder. 

[oldhippy]

Fair enough. I've been at sixes and sevens lately don't know what's the mater with me probably my age.