Barrel says do not open can it be reused

[quantieme]

Hi All, this is the barrel from a 1970s Longines Conquest automatic, can I reuse it or even better can i risk opening it to check the spring as finding a nos one is probably impossible. The barrel looks clean but the watch movement was absolutely filthy with all dried oil so i am assuming the spring will be dry.

thanks

Tony

[gbyleveldt]

Unless it’s crimped shut, you can open it, provided you have the means to properly install the MS again. There was this whole “unbreakable” phase the industry adopted when it developed modern steel mainsprings. And parts were easily accessible. No one at the time would’ve thought there would be a “Swatch” group that would try to kill off independent repair.

I should add that I’m working on a Longines L989.2 movement now - extremely rare twin barrelled marvel from the late 80’s. Only tackle what you feel confident you can replace if you screw up. Know your limits.

Edited November 2, 2022 by gbyleveldt

[quantieme]

8 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

Unless it’s crimped shut, you can open it, provided you have the means to properly install the MS again. There was this whole “unbreakable” phase the industry adopted when it developed modern steel mainsprings. And parts were easily accessible. No one at the time would’ve thought there would be a “Swatch” group that would try to kill off independent repair.

I should add that I’m working on a Longines L989.2 movement now - extremely rare twin barrelled marvel from the late 80’s. Only tackle what you feel confident you can replace if you screw up. Know your limits.

Thanks, yes I have a proper mainspring winder set, I think I will open it as it is not crimped. 

thanks for the advice

[quantieme]

On 11/2/2022 at 2:01 AM, gbyleveldt said:

Unless it’s crimped shut, you can open it, provided you have the means to properly install the MS again. There was this whole “unbreakable” phase the industry adopted when it developed modern steel mainsprings. And parts were easily accessible. No one at the time would’ve thought there would be a “Swatch” group that would try to kill off independent repair.

I should add that I’m working on a Longines L989.2 movement now - extremely rare twin barrelled marvel from the late 80’s. Only tackle what you feel confident you can replace if you screw up. Know your limits.

Thanks, yes I have a proper mainspring winder set, I think I will open it as it is not crimped. 

thanks for the advice

just an update in case anyone else comes across this, the case was not crimped and I was able to remove and clean the spring and reinstall in the normal way.

[mikepilk]

I've come across this with Longines and Seiko. They can be a bit hard to open without causing damage, but I've always got them open.  Without new parts available, it's the only option.

[anilv]

They can be opened but they seem to break more easily than the usual types.. maybe because theyre thicker? Anyway take care removing them from the barrel. I would do this to clean and oil the mainspring.

Anilv

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 11/2/2022 at 2:01 AM, gbyleveldt said:

No one at the time would’ve thought there would be a “Swatch” group that would try to kill off independent repair.

Dont get me started Gert . Greedy , selfish, manipulative, devious, arrogant, uncompromising, lack of decent moral and compassion.   Too late, shall i continue ?

[watchweasol]

Hi You forgot < self interested , trade protective,  why because they can and are protected by the EU although not a member.

 

 

[JohnR725]

On 11/1/2022 at 2:02 PM, quantieme said:

so i am assuming the spring will be dry

Depending upon whose literature look at the mainspring is supposed to be dry. Only the breaking grease and the harbor is to be lubricated. That's because either the materials the mainspring are magically self lubricating or they've applied some sort of dry invisible lubricant but supposedly they're not supposed to be lubricated.

On 11/8/2022 at 7:11 AM, quantieme said:

 

just an update in case anyone else comes across this, the case was not crimped and I was able to remove and clean the spring and reinstall in the normal way.

Out of curiosity what did you find inside? In other words was it ~sticky dirty grease or was it dry or what

7 hours ago, anilv said:

They can be opened but they seem to break more easily than the usual types.. maybe because theyre thicker? Anyway take care removing them from the barrel. I would do this to clean and oil the mainspring.

The problem is generalizations. Some of the mainspring barrels that are not meant to be opened my understanding is if you open them you probably will destroy them. Rolex for instance now is a mainspring barrel that cannot be open it's meant to be replaced and we will never see the replacement. Others older sometimes they can be open sometimes they can't. Then ones like this look like a normal barrel with just a cautionary morning. As is almost everything in watch repair that is not necessarily a universal rule of how to handle the situation.

On 11/1/2022 at 7:01 PM, gbyleveldt said:

would’ve thought there would be a “Swatch” group that would try to kill off independent repair.

Not sure that's quite a correct statement. I don't think the limiting themselves to just the independent watchmaker perhaps. Suppose for instance your watchmaker working for somebody who has Swatch group access in other words you are a chosen one how to Swatch group feel about you? In other words you're not one of those evil independent people your authorized but authorized for what exactly?

In the case of Omega you have to be at the right level to access technical literature. You can't see the service bulletins unless somebody is authorized at that level. You can typically order some casings stuff but a lot of that you can see the price but you can order. So even for Swatch group access you still have to be at the right level or for instance the last time I looked at Longines Let your sure it look like I had full access to everything all the technical bulletins number one through over 100 so they weren't necessarily as stringent as Omega. But the last time I was there there is no technical literature left. But a lot of that stuff was vintage and I think the trimming away a lot of vintage stuff. Some of the other Swatch group cites the literature is extremely poor to nonexistent. So I don't think it's just the independent That Swatch group is trying to stomp out I think they're trying to stomp out all watchmakers.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi You forgot < self interested , trade protective,  why because they can and are protected by the EU although not a member.

 

 

I actually nearly wrote self servicing

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Depending upon whose literature look at the mainspring is supposed to be dry. Only the breaking grease and the harbor is to be lubricated. That's because either the materials the mainspring are magically self lubricating or they've applied some sort of dry invisible lubricant but supposedly they're not supposed to be lubricated.

Out of curiosity what did you find inside? In other words was it ~sticky dirty grease or was it dry or what

The problem is generalizations. Some of the mainspring barrels that are not meant to be opened my understanding is if you open them you probably will destroy them. Rolex for instance now is a mainspring barrel that cannot be open it's meant to be replaced and we will never see the replacement. Others older sometimes they can be open sometimes they can't. Then ones like this look like a normal barrel with just a cautionary morning. As is almost everything in watch repair that is not necessarily a universal rule of how to handle the situation.

Not sure that's quite a correct statement. I don't think the limiting themselves to just the independent watchmaker perhaps. Suppose for instance your watchmaker working for somebody who has Swatch group access in other words you are a chosen one how to Swatch group feel about you? In other words you're not one of those evil independent people your authorized but authorized for what exactly?

In the case of Omega you have to be at the right level to access technical literature. You can't see the service bulletins unless somebody is authorized at that level. You can typically order some casings stuff but a lot of that you can see the price but you can order. So even for Swatch group access you still have to be at the right level or for instance the last time I looked at Longines Let your sure it look like I had full access to everything all the technical bulletins number one through over 100 so they weren't necessarily as stringent as Omega. But the last time I was there there is no technical literature left. But a lot of that stuff was vintage and I think the trimming away a lot of vintage stuff. Some of the other Swatch group cites the literature is extremely poor to nonexistent. So I don't think it's just the independent That Swatch group is trying to stomp out I think they're trying to stomp out all watchmakers.

Watchmakers, amateurs, enthusiasts, hobbyists, just about everyone that is not in a position to fit under their umbrella. Lets restrict parts shall we and also any literature that helps anyone fit the parts that they manage to aquire by scraping whats left in the bottom of the barrel. Then when we've done all of that lets release watches that cause their unknowingly (unknowing that swatch are asses)  public into camping out side of releasing shops early hours of the morning, to pay good money for total crap. Yes lets do that people of swatcherland. Oh i forgot youve already done it.  Cheers Gert for mentioning swatch , you know it screws with my blood pressure, i used to like you . 

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi You forgot < self interested , trade protective,  why because they can and are protected by the EU although not a member.

 

 

But not under EU law which is why swatch can do as they please. But then neither are we now. Can we all club together and build a watch factory ? We can call our brand the # FRIENDS of the FORUM SOCIÈTÈ # or FFS for short. Who would like to see FFS stamped on a watch movement ?

[tomh207]

6 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

But not under EU law which is why swatch can do as they please. But then neither are we now. Can we all club together and build a watch factory ? We can call our brand the # FRIENDS of the FORUM SOCIÈTÈ # or FFS for short. Who would like to see FFS stamped on a watch movement ?

Maybe have a look at openmovement.org looks like they will be expensive at first if you cannot make your own but the thought is there.

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

12 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Maybe have a look at openmovement.org looks like they will be expensive at first if you cannot make your own but the thought is there.

 

Tom

Yep good thought out idea but i was thinking more on the lines of erm not swiss and not La chaux de fonds. I think Switzerland has more than their fair share of watch manufacturing that may end up doing the same as every other Swiss maker.  I'm still liking FFS tbh. 

[tomh207]

10 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Yep good thought out idea but i was thinking more on the lines of erm not swiss and not La chaux de fonds. I think Switzerland has more than their fair share of watch manufacturing that may end up doing the same as every other Swiss maker.  I'm still liking FFS tbh. 

That’s why I have hopes for the open movement, anyone can make it anywhere in the world with no royalties or restrictions . Even Swiss watchmakers are getting peed off with Swatch et al.

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

13 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

That’s why I have hopes for the open movement, anyone can make it anywhere in the world with no royalties or restrictions . Even Swiss watchmakers are getting peed off with Swatch et al.

 

Tom

Sounds like a plan, just the fact that its based there has me pondering. Maybe I'm becoming cynical in my old age  

[markr]

Sorry.  FFS has just bin sold to the Swatch Group.