1978 Timex wtih 108 movement

[ManSkirtBrew]

I've heard that one doesn't really want to take the M108 or really any of these Timex movements apart. Too bad I read that after getting it apart . I had some suspicions, but I forged ahead anyway.

Even the service manual says:

Quote

With the above parts removed, the basic movement may be replaced with a Timex reconditioned movement

Thanks, Timex!

Anyway, ahead we go. For starters:

Now here was the real problem: the uni-bridge. You have to align the barrel arbor, 4 wheels, the balance, the pallet fork, and the two plates that sandwich the ratchet gear (not shown because I forgot them and had to start over). Also have to make sure the spring at the bottom is facing down, or you'll have to start over again.

It took me several hours over two days just to get the plate on. I lost count of how many times I had to take it apart and start from the beginning. Far and away the most frustrating watch-related thing I've done so far. But eventually, I won.

 

And after all that, it doesn't even run as well as when I started

I'm thinking one of a two issues:

1. Balance end shake. In a moment of pure stupidity, I took off the grub screw that is the lower balance pivot, so I re-set the shake the same way Rolex recommends: with the watch running, I turned the screw in just until the balance stopped, then backed off about 90 degrees. However, backing off more or less didn't change the amplitude noticeably, so maybe not.

2. Too much oil on the balance pivots. I put the tiniest drop of 9010 as I could in each pivot, but they are blind tapers, and the balance staff doesn't have pivots--it's sharpened to a point on either end. Could I have added friction by lubrication those?

I'm definitely open to suggestions and ideas!

[watchweasol]

Hi  As you found out the timex philosophy is the balance is removed and the movement cleaned as one and the balance cleaned and fitted. I have attached a couple of documents for you. the 1961 service manual explaines the philosophy and the other is the M108 manual.   hope it all helps.

108 (2).pdf 1961_Service_Manual (1).pdf

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

I've heard that one doesn't really want to take the M108 or really any of these Timex movements apart. Too bad I read that after getting it apart . I had some suspicions, but I forged ahead anyway.

Even the service manual says:

Thanks, Timex!

Anyway, ahead we go. For starters:

Now here was the real problem: the uni-bridge. You have to align the barrel arbor, 4 wheels, the balance, the pallet fork, and the two plates that sandwich the ratchet gear (not shown because I forgot them and had to start over). Also have to make sure the spring at the bottom is facing down, or you'll have to start over again.

It took me several hours over two days just to get the plate on. I lost count of how many times I had to take it apart and start from the beginning. Far and away the most frustrating watch-related thing I've done so far. But eventually, I won.

 

And after all that, it doesn't even run as well as when I started

I'm thinking one of a two issues:

1. Balance end shake. In a moment of pure stupidity, I took off the grub screw that is the lower balance pivot, so I re-set the shake the same way Rolex recommends: with the watch running, I turned the screw in just until the balance stopped, then backed off about 90 degrees. However, backing off more or less didn't change the amplitude noticeably, so maybe not.

2. Too much oil on the balance pivots. I put the tiniest drop of 9010 as I could in each pivot, but they are blind tapers, and the balance staff doesn't have pivots--it's sharpened to a point on either end. Could I have added friction by lubrication those?

I'm definitely open to suggestions and ideas!

It ran pretty decent apart from the rate originally. You wont want to hear this but I think i would be very closely inspecting that all of the train and escape pivots survived all of the off and ons. Easy to miss and ignore damage when frustration and eagerness to reassemble takes over. Before getting back into that though take WW's advice and follow the manuals forgetting about anything that you have done up to now. You may be lucky and another clean and relube may have some better results.

[ManSkirtBrew]

14 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

i would be very closely inspecting that all of the train and escape pivots survived all of the off and ons...You may be lucky and another clean and relube may have some better results

I arrived at the same conclusion. This one is definitely getting back-burnered for now, tho. I'm going to chalk it up to a learning experience and wear it in for a bit.

After an overnight run, amplitude came up a bit and the trace is a lot cleaner:

Looks really sharp all cleaned up!

When trying to get the back on, I noticed someone really mangled part of it. Closer inspection showed the telltale marks of pliers' teeth! A little gentle manipulation got it in decent enough shape to snap back in place at least.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 minutes ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

I arrived at the same conclusion. This one is definitely getting back-burnered for now, tho. I'm going to chalk it up to a learning experience and wear it in for a bit.

After an overnight run, amplitude came up a bit and the trace is a lot cleaner:

Looks really sharp all cleaned up!

When trying to get the back on, I noticed someone really mangled part of it. Closer inspection showed the telltale marks of pliers' teeth! A little gentle manipulation got it in decent enough shape to snap back in place at least.

 

Like watchie and john said recently we can become quite obsessive over amplitude given that we have apparatus that allows us to measure a movements running accurately. It looks rather smart mate . If its keeping both reasonable time and reserve on the wrist and neither of those attributes are deteriorating then big thumbs up . 

[ManSkirtBrew]

12 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Like watchie and john said recently we can become quite obsessive over amplitude given that we have apparatus that allows us to measure a movements running accurately. It looks rather smart mate . If its keeping both reasonable time and reserve on the wrist and neither of those attributes are deteriorating then big thumbs up . 

Cheers, couldn't agree more.

As for keeping time, I was able to regulate it within 10 seconds a day, and we'll find out about the reserve (and whether I put the automatic works together correctly ) when I wear it for a while.

[ManSkirtBrew]

After thinking on it for a bit, I remember noticing the barrel was sitting up a bit, and decided to take it apart to check the mainspring.

Additionally, after removing only the pallet fork, the train doesn't seem as free as I'd like, so more investigation is necessary.

As for the mainspring, it's bent up pretty well right near the arbor, and it doesn't sit flat at all. Guess I'll have to source a new one.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

As for the mainspring, it's bent up pretty well right near the arbor, and it doesn't sit flat at all. Guess I'll have to source a new one.

A rough hand rewind can cause this. I admit i do wind springs in by hand from time to time when the winders i have dont fit. You could try pulling the spring back through on itself. A non flat spring can cause wear inside the barrel though so always a risk.