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Well, I know what it is, but when was it made? Oris cal. 452


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I picked up this watch as part of a group from an auction site. Originally I thought it might be a cal. 292 which was (I believe) produced exclusively in the 40's. After opening the case, it turns out to be a cal. 452.

I can't find a lot online about these particular movements. Does anyone know the history?

I'm planning to make a thread for this watch with more images and info as I start working on getting it back into good working order.

 

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I'm a complete novice, but I know it's a pin-lever escapement, and the lume is almost definitely radium, so I know it will a) be annoying to service and b) also be somewhat hazardous.

I'm not planning to start restoring/repairing this watch for my first attempt, I've got some cheaper modern movements on the way that I'll be practising on first. But eventually the plan is to tackle this watch when I have more experience. 

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3 hours ago, lexacat said:

I picked up this watch as part of a group from an auction site. Originally I thought it might be a cal. 292 which was (I believe) produced exclusively in the 40's. After opening the case, it turns out to be a cal. 452.

I can't find a lot online about these particular movements. Does anyone know the history?

I'm planning to make a thread for this watch with more images and info as I start working on getting it back into good working order.

 

IMG_20221018_093151.jpg

IMG_20221018_094443.jpg

IMG_20221018_094814.jpg

IMG_20221018_095951.jpg

IMG_20221018_100736.jpg

IMG_20221018_100749.jpg

I'm a complete novice, but I know it's a pin-lever escapement, and the lume is almost definitely radium, so I know it will a) be annoying to service and b) also be somewhat hazardous.

I'm not planning to start restoring/repairing this watch for my first attempt, I've got some cheaper modern movements on the way that I'll be practising on first. But eventually the plan is to tackle this watch when I have more experience. 

Eyup lex. A good choice Oris is my favourite maker and were my first repairs. I have quite a few of these. The 292 is a fraction bigger but both made around the same time 40s and 50s . As far as i know the 26x and 29x were a little earlier but they overlapped for a while with the 45x . 451 is the sub dial the 452 sweep second and 453 is the famous oris date pointer, some of the dials on the pointers are just gorgeous. I have a lovely beige grooved dial with bronze raised numerals with an old style date cresent pointer, waiting to be repaired. The 45x jewel count did eventually go to 15 . Not bad to work on, does it tick ? The balance staff is often broken or worn so watch out for this when buying as not an easy fix for a beginner and requiring a staking set. An option would be a balance complete. The time set and winding mechanisms is quite dated with a rocker plate and 3 meshing cogs. But still not bad to work on, make sure you replace them the correct way up, one side has a bevel. And the return spring is a little fiddly, you have to work on both sides of the dial to have it interact with the rocker plate. My advice when you strip that part down take plenty of photos and do a few short reassemblies of the cogs and spring to imprint it in your memory how they go. 

4 hours ago, lexacat said:

the lume is almost definitely radium, so I know it will a) be annoying to service and b) also be somewhat hazardous.

Yes it is so no breathing in any dust or using your puffer to clear the dial, if you intend to try clean the dial ( personally I wouldn't for one it will ruin the patina here which has a nice tropical look going on  ) then wear a mask and work well away from the numerals. Really just wear your mask, finger cots and roll a fresh piece of rodico over any loose debris. Then dispose of the rodico responsibly. ( not in the mother in-laws tea, now there's an idea 🤔 ) The lume on the hands may well fall out when you remove them  ( so thats a little more to dissolve in her cuppa 🤔, stop it Richard STOP you're  being bad, you had a lovely gift yesterday lets not spoil it 🙄. Yeah wierd day coming up I'm affraid , I'm talking to myself already ) . Hi yeah sorry, back to advice er. The wheel on the top plate you can see drives the pinion on the sweep ( second ) hand. The pinion is under that little pressure strip. So that 5 spoked wheel needs come off before the plate comes off really, its friction fitted ( pressed on ) . It can be a real 'son of a' to get off for a beginner without the correct tool. So take your time plan what you are going to do and ask here before you even attempt it. A few members have some little hacks to try, if you break it you've lost the use of the second hand, er yes i have one those that has my swear words etched onto the bridge plate from my vocal blast 🤣

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Fantastic, thanks for the info!

With the bundstrap and leather band it really looked like a pilots watch from factory, so I was kinda hoping it might be a WWII era timepiece. Good to know that might still be the case. The back cover is in near immaculate condition which lends some credence to the idea that the bundstrap was an original accessory.
 

56 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Does it tick ?

It sure does! It's a bit of a basketcase on the timegrapher, about 200-300s a day slow, but then I'm not sure what to do about lift angle for a pin-pallet escapement. It's running non-stop but has some pretty severe jitters. I'm hoping it just needs a decent clean and lubrication and it will come back to life. Fingers crossed no issues with the balance, but I've seen some parts out and about. Will definitely go balance complete, the bank account is a bit drained after getting set up, so no staking set for me for some time.
 

 

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

The time set and winding mechanisms is quite dated with a rocker plate and 3 meshing cogs. But still not bad to work on, make sure you replace them the correct way up, one side has a bevel. And the return spring is a little fiddly, you have to work on both sides of the dial to have it interact with the rocker plate. My advice when you strip that part down take plenty of photos and do a few short reassemblies of the cogs and spring to imprint it in your memory how they go. 

Great advice, thanks! I'm definitely planning to take as many macro pictures and probably video of the disassembly so I can reassemble in the correct order. I've watched at least one 292 disassembly video on youtube so I'm hoping that will provide assistance for the 452 if I need it. I hadn't thought to disassemle and then reassemble the cogs and spring a couple of times like that, but I'll definitely be doing that.
 

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

if you intend to try clean the dial ( personally I wouldn't for one it will ruin the patina here which has a nice tropical look going on  ).  

The lume on the hands may well fall out when you remove them


Oh, I have no plans to clean the dial, I love the way it looks. I'm going to store it away safely until it's time to reassemble, that's about it. I'll definitely be replacing the crystal though, just hoping I can get it out without obliterating it, it's obviously not in great condition. Full PPE is the plan for sure.

I really hope the lume stays in the hands, for safety reasons but also I'd like the watch to stay as original as possible. But if it does come out I'll look at re-luming with something less... radioactive.

 

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

that 5 spoked wheel needs come off before the plate comes off really, its friction fitted ( pressed on ) . It can be a real 'son of a' to get off for a beginner without the correct tool.

Oh yeah I've read up about that guy. I've been eyeballing the Bergeon presto 5-spoke wheel removers, but I don't want to buy a single tool for a single task if I can avoid it. I may be able to fabricate something that will do the trick, but if I go down that route I'll definitely be running it past the experts!

Thanks again for your help!

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2 hours ago, lexacat said:

With the bundstrap and leather band it really looked like a pilots watch from factory, so I was kinda hoping it might be a WWII era timepiece. Good to know that might still be the case. The back cover is in near immaculate condition which lends some credence to the idea that the bundstrap was an original accessory.

Hi again matey. It could well be a ww2 era timepiece, I'm  not exactly sure when Oris started making these. I think I've seen 1943 but they ran into the 50s. Not military though or not officially anyway. The owner probably just liked the look of it on the cuff strap, it does look quite nice sitting on it. Pilot watches tend to have large crowns so they can be wound with gloves on in a freezing cockpit. Also would be antimagnetic, higher spec than what you have here. Anything military would be documented, serial markings etc. I adore military watches and aquired one of my grail watches a little while back. Search in watch of today a few  months back you should find it.  Yep that strap has protected the case back alright, some folks skin and sweat can make a real mess of a watch. I have a lovely art deco Oris on my bench with gorgeous lugs on it but the case back is shredded from someones reaction to it, its minging and also the case itself is quite poorly. Ive to make my first attempt at a full case restoration and plating on it after some practice on a lesser case.

3 hours ago, lexacat said:

sure does! It's a bit of a basketcase on the timegrapher, about 200-300s a day slow, but then I'm not sure what to do about lift angle for a pin-pallet escapement. It's running non-stop but has some pretty severe jitters. I'm hoping it just needs a decent clean and lubrication and it will come back to life. Fingers crossed no issues with the balance, but I've seen some parts out and about. Will definitely go balance complete, the bank account is a bit drained after getting set up, so no staking set for me for some time.
 

Pin pallets usually are rough tbh, but oris were pretty good at them. Just dont expect to get anything above poor readings though, amplitude will be crap by modern standards. Unlikely you will find a lift angle for it and I'm not exactly sure if its even relevant on a pin pallet, John or Nicklesilver could maybe answer this for us, but you could determine something by visually having the balance run at 180 ' do this by marking a point on the balance wheel, then slowly put wind into the watch until you see the mark meeting at the same point on the mainplate through each opposing swing, a slow motion video of this on your phone is a big help. Once you have established a 180 ' amp visually then adjust your time grapher until its display reads 180 ' amp. You then have your lift angle staring at you, within an approximation of it anyway. This may be all moot tbh, as you may not get much above 180' unless the movement is in good order. But its start and its also a good way to learn and at least you are heading in the right direction. Sometimes you have to realise how old these are, like a vintage car expect it to perform ropey and break down from time to time. You have to just enjoy that process along with wearing the watch. Poor thing has put its work into telling the time for years it now wants a little retirement time 🙃. Yes I'm a little wierd i think inanimate objects have feelings too, dont judge me i also have feelings 🙄

4 hours ago, lexacat said:
5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

 

Great advice, thanks! I'm definitely planning to take as many macro pictures and probably video of the disassembly so I can reassemble in the correct order. I've watched at least one 292 disassembly video on youtube so I'm hoping that will provide assistance for the 452 if I need it. I hadn't thought to disassemle and then reassemble the cogs and spring a couple of times like that, but I'll definitely be doing that.

I think both cals. use the same time set and winding design. I'm pleased you've listened to that little tip, ive given it out a few times but i think it falls on deaf ears as never seen any feedback from it. It came to me after striping a watch down and not fully recording or noting everything then was pratting around for ages trying to reassemble. Small repeated steps ingrain your memory far better, very useful on a tricky junction. It also hones your fine motor skills, 1st time arkward, 2nd time less so , 3rd time its getting easier 10th time its becoming a piece of cake. Not that I'm advocating doing it that many times as you need to take repeated stress on a fragile part into account. Just have it in position and run through the process in your head a few times until it sinks in, with maybe just one trial run if its looking fragile as some parts can be a bugger to aquire.

4 hours ago, lexacat said:


Oh, I have no plans to clean the dial, I love the way it looks. I'm going to store it away safely until it's time to reassemble, that's about it. I'll definitely be replacing the crystal though, just hoping I can get it out without obliterating it, it's obviously not in great condition. Full PPE is the plan for sure.

I really hope the lume stays in the hands, for safety reasons but also I'd like the watch to stay as original as possible. But if it does come out I'll look at re-luming with something less... radioactive

The crystal should come out just fine, was it cracked i cant remember, if not then restore it. Haha just a mask and finger cots will be fine, dont breathe in any dust and wash your hands thoughly afterwards. Just do your best when removing and replacing the hands, the lume in the hands will be fragile and crumbly. Unlikely you will find anything as radioactive as this lume unless you meet my mother in- law and her evil tongue, haha mother in-law is getting it today ( she wishes, hell would freeze over first lol ) .

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