1987 Rolex Ladies Datejust refurb

[Klassiker]

2 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

the hairspring immediately deformed

You put it right once, so you can do it again. Don't get discouraged. From what I can see, you have a lot of ability and a good attitude. Think about what to do differently next time, to remember where all the screws come from.

[ManSkirtBrew]

Thanks, all. I'm going to take a break and work on some other projects for a bit, then come back. I most likely need to strip the movement down to the plate and start again.

They call it practice, right?

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

Thanks, all. I'm going to take a break and work on some other projects for a bit, then come back. I most likely need to strip the movement down to the plate and start again.

They call it practice, right?

You are discouraged through some set backs mate, perfectly understandable. You've worked bloody hard and its fought you all the way so you have earned a break. Time to get your motivation back and have a go at something else for a while. You will come back to it stronger and better without a doubt.

[ManSkirtBrew]

Good evening, friends. After a good break, I decided to have another go. I stripped it back down completely and am giving everything another good hard look. I still don't see where that spare screw was supposed to go, but I'm going to re-watch some videos I found.

I noticed this pivot on the second wheel:

It looks hourglass-shaped and grooved. The jewel looks perfect, so I'm surprised to see this much wear.

But since I'm learning all manner of new things on this watch, I have to ask: did Rolex design it with this shape, or is that wear?

 

Edit to note that CousinsUK calls it a "great wheel."

Edited November 12, 2022 by ManSkirtBrew

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

Good evening, friends. After a good break, I decided to have another go. I stripped it back down completely and am giving everything another good hard look. I still don't see where that spare screw was supposed to go, but I'm going to re-watch some videos I found.

I noticed this pivot on the second wheel:

It looks hourglass-shaped and grooved. The jewel looks perfect, so I'm surprised to see this much wear.

But since I'm learning all manner of new things on this watch, I have to ask: did Rolex design it with this shape, or is that wear?

 

Edit to note that CousinsUK calls it a "great wheel."

Eyup matey.  Not something i have seen on any swiss movement i have repaired. Maybe john or another pro could answer if this is specfic to this rolex model. Could you improve the focus on the picture, any wear pattern visible would be obvious compared to something manufactued that way. A cheap phone tripod will help with the focus..

Edited November 12, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[nickelsilver]

That pivot is very worn, it should have nice polished parallel sides. You could refinish it, but then the jewel would be too large, so change the jewel, now things aren't original... I would go with the generic wheel you posted from Cousins.

 

Pivots get like this from being run past the service life of the lubricants. Not all, and not always, but some movements will keep running seemingly happy with every dry and dirty, and only come in when something breaks or the watch just stops. I did a Rolex for a friend last year; he had it serviced the last time in '98 or so, haha. Luckily he doesn't wear it often- and it did run pretty darn well! But dry as a bone. In his case there was no wear, but I have seen pivots in Rolexes and ETA movements that had worn so thin it was amazing they still worked.

[ManSkirtBrew]

6 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

That pivot is very worn, it should have nice polished parallel sides. You could refinish it, but then the jewel would be too large, so change the jewel, now things aren't original... I would go with the generic wheel you posted from Cousins.

Thank you. I agree, I'd much rather just swap out the wheel, especially since it's reasonably priced.

Is there any compelling reason to go with a genuine Rolex replacement over the generic? I found Rolex ones on eBay for $75. The generic is about $35. At this point $40 doesn't seem like much, but I'm curious.

[nickelsilver]

I've never tried any  generic Rolex parts, so can't offer any advice there. I remember 20+ years ago a friend of mine (who worked for a Rolex dealer and could get parts) did try some just to see the difference. In particular the auto weight axle, which he found not as well finished, and didn't "break" correctly when punching out. But that was then, I wouldn't be surprised at all if quality has gone up, especially since parts availability has gone down in the same time period. You won't hurt anything, that's for sure. Only issue I can see is from a professional perspective of a watchmaker charging for genuine parts while using generic.

[JohnR725]

11 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Pivots get like this from being run past the service life of the lubricants. Not all, and not always, but some movements will keep running seemingly happy with every dry and dirty, and only come in when something breaks or the watch just stops.

this is my amusement on the collectors discussions. They like to complain about the high cost of watch repair. The greedy watchmakers and brag about how they have a watch running perfectly and I haven't had its serviced in a very very long time. Then of course at some point time they're upset with the greedy watchmaker because their watch has a problem. that's where you start finding all the issues of things worn out broken destroyed. Plus on authorized Rolex service they automatically replace a lot of components that we can't even get. So even Rolex knows a time limit between servicing where things have to be replaced

The other aspect of this that would also cause your problem is the gaskets will all disintegrate at some point in time and if you can get moisture into the case you can end up with a little rusty even surface rust which is actually a really nice grinding compound. 

It's one of the sad realities of synthetic lubricants rather than becoming sticky and stopping the watch like in the old days and saving the watch synthetic lubricants just disappear everything is dry and then the watch grinds itself to death. this becomes very common on early automatic watches that don't have jeweled bearings for the automatic mechanism.

genuine versus other has changed with time. I was once working on a Rolex that I had and it was at a time when the material houses still could sell Rolex parts. Seattle used to have anything at one time we had for material houses you could walk into and do business which was really nice. My favorite one run by Dan attempted to convince me to buy a best fit rotor rather than Rolex because it was $25 versus 75. But all the rest the parts I had purchased were genuine in the original packages. I was unhappy but. All the years I done business with that particular material house and than he had never steered me wrong and everything that he said was good was definitely good so we ordered it. It looked identical I could not tell at all.

Years later I get an answer to that question. Somebody going to school in Switzerland visited the best fit factory. At that time when Rolex would sell parts to us common folk they also sold parts to bestfit soda Omega. So when he was there they were packaging up Omega parts in the morning in the original mega packaging. But in the afternoon bestfit parts the same part but just under the bestfit number. So sometimes at least the past generic wasn't generic.

 

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

Okay, I'm back at this and could use your help. At some point in this long process, I bumped my parts tray and all the screws got mixed up.

I watched Richard Perrett's excellent videos on this movement, and am trying to lay everything out as he did to find out where my extra screw goes.

As far as I can see, every mounting hole is accounted for, but I have one tiny countersunk screw left over, circled below. It's the same screw that holds down the calendar works in the bottom left and bottom right of the image above, but I can't find a spot for it anywhere.

Anyone have experience with this, or can see what I'm missing?

[Kalanag]

6 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

Anyone have experience with this, or can see what I'm missing?

This one?
 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Kalanag

[ManSkirtBrew]

7 hours ago, Kalanag said:

This one?

It's a good guess, but no--that and the screw that adjusts the balance end-shake are the only two screws I never removed.

[ManSkirtBrew]

Since I know you're all on the edge of your seat: I found it, thanks to the many pictures I (thankfully!) took during disassembly.

I was looking at this image, and realized I had seen that brass stem retaining screw somewhere:

I thought it was to hold the brass cover on the underside of the automatic works. When I took a look at my disassembly photo, it was pretty clear that screw was the countersunk screw I couldn't find.

Moral of the story: take tons of pictures during disassembly!

Since this has been together and apart a few times, since I've got some L&R #566 and #3 coming in the mail, and since it was first cleaned with only lighter fluid, I'm going to clean the parts again before tackling reassembly.

I figure it can't hurt to start with extra pristine parts.