Strange minute wheel rework?

[JohnR725]

On 10/8/2022 at 7:34 AM, LittleWatchShop said:

bet the cannon pinion swaps...some research might confirm

One of the ways to do this is to go to a website like the site below. Enter in the grade you get a parts listing and then on the bottom of the page if you enter the part number in it give you the cross reference.

For this watch are probably be okay for the cross referenced if you're looking at older pocket watches the early ones you always have be careful when you start mixing and matching parts because just because the database the parts catalog said they change they may not. In the early watch is a lot of stuff was sized to fit so not going to be drop-in but this is new enough that everything should fit.

http://www.elginwatchparts.com/

57 minutes ago, fellerts said:

I think it's safe to say that this was someone's practice/scrap movement at some point.

 

The problem with military wristwatches are they've had a long work and have had a long hard life. Then there vintage now and as you noticed a lot of interesting servicing has occurred or lack of servicing has occurred.

Unfortunately this kind of problem is all too common and eBay is both good and bad for solving the problem. On the bench at work I have an Elgin 3/0. It has interesting story what has to be serviced or else he was traded to a customer for something else. So does no option of saying it can't be repaired it has to be repaired. Don't remember all the issues but the biggest issue was all the plates screws restrict. That bat movement off of eBay and the expensive watches don't necessarily look like there any better condition than the cheap watches. So promising watch arrives and it was probably dropped on the crown from outer space and all of the keyless parts were destroyed in some way it basically became a part watch

the second replacement came last week and the good news for watches that are not running is if you're lucky the lubrication disintegrated in the watch is not worn out. Other than a broken plate screw it's looking quite promising. The problem with eBay as you can't tell from the description the seller gives as to what the condition is or is not. Despite the fact these people are selling watches all day long they will usually claim they have no knowledge of what a watch is and they can't properly describe its condition because of day did you probably wouldn't I the watch

the nice thing though about eBay is you can set up a search save it and just keep an eye open sooner or later stuff will show up. But you have a popular watch that means it as an unpopular price. You may conceivably have to buy bits and pieces to put something together.

 

[fellerts]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Is there a reason you can't remove some material from this part of the keyless cover plate ?

I suppose not, but I'm worried the slanted post will misalign the minute wheel so that it meshes poorly with the other wheels. I'm thoroughly inexperienced though, so any advice is welcome!

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

One of the ways to do this is to go to a website like the site below. Enter in the grade you get a parts listing and then on the bottom of the page if you enter the part number in it give you the cross reference.

Bookmarked! This database was also recommended by someone earlier. Excellent resources both, thanks.

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

the nice thing though about eBay is you can set up a search save it and just keep an eye open sooner or later stuff will show up. But you have a popular watch that means it as an unpopular price. You may conceivably have to buy bits and pieces to put something together.

I've got email notifications set up for interesting searches. Buying will always be a gamble unless you know the seller, but that's a game we just have to play I guess.

Edited October 11, 2022 by fellerts

[JohnR725]

13 hours ago, fellerts said:

Buying will always be a gamble unless you know the seller, but that's a game we just have to play I guess.

yes that's always the challenge with eBay. Sometimes you can tell from the reviews like lots of negative reviews are not a good sign that you're getting a great deal. I do find sometimes you have to read the reviews because I ordered some hardware not for a watch and pondering why it's not arriving is looking at the review in somebody complained took extremely long shipping time but it's amazing what happens if you place a question on eBay because it has to be resolved within a certain length of time or else. But that still doesn't help with poor descriptions of what the item is like the condition of the watch.

but still with all its problems lots of marvelous things come from eBay and I spend far too much money there.

[LittleWatchShop]

42 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

but still with all its problems lots of marvelous things come from eBay and I spend far too much money there.

Lol...I calculated my 2021 purchases and my jaw dropped!

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:44 PM, fellerts said:

suppose not, but I'm worried the slanted post will misalign the minute wheel so that it meshes poorly with the other wheels. I'm thoroughly inexperienced though, so any advice is welcome!

Just wondered why the cover plate space around the canon pinion was so off centre. I've had with with bridges in the past. Recently with a barrel bridge that was just catching a center wheel pinion,this from manufacturer. 

10 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

but still with all its problems lots of marvelous things come from eBay and I spend far too much money there.

Me too John, me too . But once you've figured out the sellers lttle tricks and scams it's so much easier. 

[fellerts]

14 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Just wondered why the cover plate space around the canon pinion was so off centre. I've had with with bridges in the past. Recently with a barrel bridge that was just catching a center wheel pinion,this from manufacturer. 

Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding - it's the minute wheel that's misaligned, this is probably because its post is slanted. The plate (setting lever spring and cover plate in one) seems within tolerance as far as I can tell.

Did you see this in a cheap no-name movement? Surprising that it would ever pass QA, but then again proper QA is expensive...

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, fellerts said:

7 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

 

Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding - it's the minute wheel that's misaligned, this is probably because its post is slanted. The plate (setting lever spring and cover plate in one) seems within tolerance as far as I can tell.

Ok thankyou for clarification.  The center wheel post must be badly bent (have you confirmed  this ( a truing caliper,if not then rolling on a staking block should show some fault and possibly some correction at that point. From the photo it does look more like a poorly  designed set lever spring. So a new centre wheel then or at the very least a straightening attempt made with which nothing to lose by. Haha sorry my mistake ,it's 4 am in Rome and am still have asleep lol. Looked back it's the minute wheel post , disregard all of the above   . I'll try again, so just a thought about attaching a pin vice to the post to straighten it, maybe with a touch of heat to give it malleability. 

6 hours ago, fellerts said:

Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding - it's the minute wheel that's misaligned, this is probably because its post is slanted. The plate (setting lever spring and cover plate in one) seems within tolerance as far as I can tell.

Did you see this in a cheap no-name movement? Surprising that it would ever pass QA, but then again proper QA is expensive...

 

6 hours ago, fellerts said:

 

Did you see this in a cheap no-name movement? Surprising that it would ever pass QA, but then again proper QA is expensive...

A sixty year old  Osco, so yes a relatively cheap movement. It had virtually no tolerance at all, possibly some slight  wear in the center wheel hole saw rubbing on its pinion. Adjusting the bridge and not repairing the hole allowed for an easier although eventual  temporary fix to give a running watch.  Not best practice but it was a cheap item that I experiment on and abuse. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[fellerts]

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ok thankyou for clarification.  The center wheel post must be badly bent (have you confirmed  this ( a truing caliper,if not then rolling on a staking block should show some fault and possibly some correction at that point. From the photo it does look more like a poorly  designed set lever spring. So a new centre wheel then or at the very least a straightening attempt made with which nothing to lose by. Haha sorry my mistake ,it's 4 am in Rome and am still have asleep lol. Looked back it's the minute wheel post , disregard all of the above   . I'll try again, so just a thought about attaching a pin vice to the post to straighten it, maybe with a touch of heat to give it malleability. 

 

A sixty year old  Osco, so yes a relatively cheap movement. It had virtually no tolerance at all, possibly some slight  wear in the center wheel hole saw rubbing on its pinion. Adjusting the bridge and not repairing the hole allowed for an easier although eventual  temporary fix to give a running watch.  Not best practice but it was a cheap item that I experiment on and abuse. 

No worries mate, enjoy Rome! Lovely there when it's not 35 C.

yup I might attempt to straighten the post at some point but to be fair at this point she's a donor.

[LittleWatchShop]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144764617973?mkcid=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&ssspo=cMfzbUoDTEu&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=YDhp0AUHTjC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=EMAIL&siteid=0&customid=link&campid=5337464733&toolid=20001

Edited October 13, 2022 by LittleWatchShop

[fellerts]

3 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144764617973?mkcid=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&ssspo=cMfzbUoDTEu&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=YDhp0AUHTjC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=EMAIL&siteid=0&customid=link&campid=5337464733&toolid=20001

Thanks mate! My eBay filter picked this one up so I'm already on the ball. 

I wish eBay bidders wouldn't wait until there are 10 milliseconds left on the clock to place bids...

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, fellerts said:

I wish eBay bidders wouldn't wait until there are 10 milliseconds left on the clock to place bids

It is the way the game is played.  You can't beat 'em...join 'em!  You cannot beat a bot though.

[fellerts]

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

It is the way the game is played.  You can't beat 'em...join 'em!  You cannot beat a bot though.

I can program though. Signed up for the eBay Developers Program now, will see if there's any interesting API endpoints that can be... leveraged...

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, fellerts said:

Thanks mate! My eBay filter picked this one up so I'm already on the ball. 

I wish eBay bidders wouldn't wait until there are 10 milliseconds left on the clock to place bids...

 

26 minutes ago, fellerts said:

I can program though. Signed up for the eBay Developers Program now, will see if there's any interesting API endpoints that can be... leveraged...

I've found that jumping in at around five seconds out can sometimes work. It can stop anyone upping their maximum bid at the end.

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, fellerts said:

I wish eBay bidders wouldn't wait until there are 10 milliseconds left on the clock to place bids...

10 ms is a little close I usually wait until it just goes past 10 seconds. Then it doesn't really matter the person who wins the auction was the person willing to pay the most. So if you place your maximum bid and I bid nine seconds before and your bids higher than mine you get it.

where the problem you're having is you think this is the normal auction. n other words somebody bids one dollar somebody else bids two dollars the first person unhappy bids three dollars then somebody else sort one of the others bids four dollars. Yes you'll see auctions that were slowly incremented up in tiny amounts of money because their bidding against each other. Then somebody like me comes along and bids $10 in the current bit is at four dollars and I get it for five dollars. Because you not bidding your maximum amount of money.

So in the end whoever gets the item was willing to pay the most. Then out there there are applications that will do the bidding for you someone once told me it is even a free one. But what's the fun of that it's more fun to wait to the last second and see if you going to get it.

But no matter what it's who was willing to pay the most gets it.

 

[LittleWatchShop]

25 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

10 ms is a little close I usually wait until it just goes past 10 seconds. Then it doesn't really matter the person who wins the auction was the person willing to pay the most. So if you place your maximum bid and I bid nine seconds before and your bids higher than mine you get it.

where the problem you're having is you think this is the normal auction. n other words somebody bids one dollar somebody else bids two dollars the first person unhappy bids three dollars then somebody else sort one of the others bids four dollars. Yes you'll see auctions that were slowly incremented up in tiny amounts of money because their bidding against each other. Then somebody like me comes along and bids $10 in the current bit is at four dollars and I get it for five dollars. Because you not bidding your maximum amount of money.

So in the end whoever gets the item was willing to pay the most. Then out there there are applications that will do the bidding for you someone once told me it is even a free one. But what's the fun of that it's more fun to wait to the last second and see if you going to get it.

But no matter what it's who was willing to pay the most gets it.

 

Your internet bandwidth and the path to ebay will have some unknown impact.  I have crappy BW, so I always bid before 5s...generally at about 7s.  Still, somebody will up their bid from time to time and I pay more but still win.

[fellerts]

37 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Your internet bandwidth and the path to ebay will have some unknown impact.  I have crappy BW, so I always bid before 5s...generally at about 7s.  Still, somebody will up their bid from time to time and I pay more but still win.

These are slippery slopes my friends, look at what lengths wall street are going to for that extra fraction of a second advantage... https://www.wsj.com/articles/high-frequency-traders-push-closer-to-light-speed-with-cutting-edge-cables-11608028200

[JohnR725]

44 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Your internet bandwidth and the path to ebay will have some unknown impact.  I have crappy BW, so I always bid before 5s...generally at about 7s.  Still, somebody will up their bid from time to time and I pay more but still win

not just the bandwidth but mysterious problems? I was found personally 10 seconds worked I didn't place the bid but I would start the bid he could look at the countdown and but try not to cut it to close I never had a problem. But lately I'm not sure why with my cable modem it decides to disappear. The other day I was going to bid on a 3-D printer kits and I got it at the bid price because no one bid against me which was weird but seconds before my motor went out and then it came back on and I was annoyed with myself for not getting a little sooner. So yes there is the Internet glitch problem and you do have to play with your system as to how close to cut it because I have noticed yes you place the bid you click the button and you waste and possibly wades and yes so that can be issues.

By Spain's of you really wanted to go with one of those services in the bid for you then you just walk away and all the fun is gone.

[LittleWatchShop]

10 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

then you just walk away and all the fun is gone.

I like the fun.

I also close my mail tool (thunderbird) in case someone is sending me a big file and it is downloading just when I want to bid.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

10 ms is a little close I usually wait until it just goes past 10 seconds. Then it doesn't really matter the person who wins the auction was the person willing to pay the most. So if you place your maximum bid and I bid nine seconds before and your bids higher than mine you get it.

where the problem you're having is you think this is the normal auction. n other words somebody bids one dollar somebody else bids two dollars the first person unhappy bids three dollars then somebody else sort one of the others bids four dollars. Yes you'll see auctions that were slowly incremented up in tiny amounts of money because their bidding against each other. Then somebody like me comes along and bids $10 in the current bit is at four dollars and I get it for five dollars. Because you not bidding your maximum amount of money.

So in the end whoever gets the item was willing to pay the most. Then out there there are applications that will do the bidding for you someone once told me it is even a free one. But what's the fun of that it's more fun to wait to the last second and see if you going to get it.

But no matter what it's who was willing to pay the most gets it.

 

The reason for sniping although this can be considered unethical but you can be up against others that do it so as LWS says you have to play the game. And it certainly does involve a little mind games. Sniping slows down bidding fever. Regular bidding and max bidding creates competition,something you don't want during an aunction unless you are a seller, as it gives the best seller price, they hate sniping for obvious reasons. If there are a few intending to snipe and really want the item then it's back to pot luck and irrelavent what games you want to play. Its more about really just creating an unawareness of interest, interest is something that other buyers look out for,but also to stop fake bidding by a seller and his friends. The ebay bid confirmation format has also recently changed. It used to be possible to watch the bids come in while you were waiting to click your final bid confirmation in. That has disappeared now, so you are bidding blind against other bidders, but it does stop you upping your max bid, and lowers your bidding fever, but also doesn't guarantee you your purchase. I tend to go in with the mindset of  " if I get it I get,if I don't then I don't #. If you are a patient person then this is a good way to wait out for your bargain. Which doesn't really take that long tbh as our interest in watches especially repair is a rather obscure one. From my good fortune from buying I can only assume that there is more than enough watches and tools to go around our community.