Watch Hand Removal

[TwistyHairspring]

Has anyone experienced watch hands like these? My Presto tool won't touch them and I used levers until the face became slightly deformed. Is there a trick, or are they just stuck?

[KarlvonKoln]

I tried this trick once for a very firmly-mounted sub-seconds hand, and it worked when nothing else would: I used some strong silk thread (I also do costuming and alterations) but you could use button thread or carpet thread if it is not too thick to slide under the hands. Quilting thread is good too.  But do not pick Dacron thread - it has no spring or give to it, and would transmit the full force of what you are about to do directly to the hand, and may inadvertently cause damage.  I would use thread that is strong - *but* would still break before the hand would break.  Dacron is VERY strong, so I would be wary of using it for this.  What I did with the thread was to make loops to go around the hand's arbor on either side, so it would pull evenly and not bend the hand.  I tried to keep both loops snug against the arbor and below the boss.  And, pressing down on the dial with my fingers, I gave a quick tug on the loops, and the hand popped off.  
You'll want to pull straight away from the dial; be mindful that you do not pull at an angle.  A replacement hand can be found and a dial can be flattened out again, but damage to pivots will give you much more work.

[JohnR725]

it appears you have a stopwatch and you do not want to be doing what you're doing now you will regret it.

stopwatches are really interesting for the hands in that there is a heck of a lot of force applied to them so they have to be on super super tight. this means typically you never remove the hands. Fortunately there's a procedure.

underneath each hand is a heart-shaped cam that frictions on a post so you remove the dial and gently lift up at the hand and its heart-shaped cam will hopefully slide off the post and that's the way they would normally be. For some reason you absolutely had to take that handoff there is a special tool for that but you're not going to do it with any of the normal tools you have.

By the way what does the other side of the movement look like?

 

 

 

[TwistyHairspring]

Thanks JohnR, I know exactly what you are talking about. The Waltham stopwatch you helped me with in my other thread is just like that.  This Hanhart, however, seems to be slightly different. This face had two screws attaching it (the holes are visible at the 9 & 3 o'clock positions). After removing those, the face is free to rattle around, limited only by the 2 hands. I have applied as much pressure lifting the face straight up as I am comfortable with. Perhaps as I disassemble the mechanism things will become clear?

[JohnR725]

considering how common stopwatches are it seems like there should be more servicing information out there but it doesn't seem to exist. Did get you a picture of the factory where you can see some pictures of movements

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/flieger-friday-visit-to-hanhart-factory-and-museum.5210908/

oh and apparently some parts are available we get a parts listing which suggests that there must be technical information out there somewhere. seeing as how the company is still in existence you could always ask the company for service guide it should be worth a laugh though as usually watch companies want you send the watch back to them they don't trust you

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?begin=HAN_&end=HAN_&label=Calibres_Manufactured_by_HANHART

 

[TwistyHairspring]

What do we call the spring that runs this ratchet mechanism? That seems to be what is broken.

[LittleWatchShop]

37 minutes ago, TwistyHairspring said:

What do we call the spring that runs this ratchet mechanism?

I would call it a "click spring"

Remove the click and lets see what the spring looks like.  I am guessing it is the less common circular type.

[TwistyHairspring]

Yes, it is circular, with the ends turned up in opposite directions. Any idea where I can get one? I have an email in to Hanhart.

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, TwistyHairspring said:

Any idea where I can get one? I have an email in to Hanhart.

probably the what the rest of us would do is just look at our assortment of click Springs and see if we had one that fits. I have a suspicion because pocket watch size that conceivably a 6497 would be about the right size. Maybe if you took a picture of it with a reference to a size in millimeters somebody with a 6497 could look and see if it looks like it's the right size. Then of course if we knew which movement it is there are parts listings we might actually Billy get your part number but we would need a movement number which I didn't think we had yet?

[TwistyHairspring]

Spring diameter is 1/4‐3/8".  Model is HH367.

Thanks!

[JohnR725]

it looks like it's available yes it can be purchased

http://www.julesborel.com/s.nl/it.A/id.201511/.f

now I'll show you how we get here for future reference

http://cgi.julesborel.com/

one of the things important to remember when looking up parts on this site is you actually have to know who made the watch. Because often times watches will have a name on the dial and even a name on the back plate but isn't actually who made the watch. I'm not explained that aspect because that would take up another several paragraphs.

Okay so then you can find a company name click on that go down the list and find your model number but before clicking on the model number notice a reference that the base model is 36. So all the parts under your actual part number are unique to your watch but we need the base model for the click spring so go back to 36 click on that and you should be here.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=X_ZDYI\

then even if for some reason they didn't have it but the action we do you see all the watches and across references to you can start looking on eBay or other places for broken stopwatches except of course people will tell you which stopwatch that have but still you go maybe find a box broken stopwatches or something Gidget clue what you're looking for

430/259  CLICKSPRING   Price Each $  7.40

then you get the important things you get that number the 430/259 that's the important number because armed with that number you can go here

http://www.julesborel.com/

make sure when you're copying and pasting the number some sites are more picky than others make sure that there is no blank spaces on either side your number I can't remember one of the sites I go to if there's a blank space of just come back as no even though it is yes.

so in the top right is the search category of the search box hit the search icon and you'll end up in a page with what it's found sometimes you'll find lots of things in our particular case it comes herewith just one item

http://www.julesborel.com/home?search=430%2F259

then all you do is click on the boxand then you should be at the link which I gave at the very top of the page you will note that the price is going up by a little bit but at least it's available I would suggest ordering more than one they used to be but probably not anymore because they don't actually list this used in watch parts if you ordered three you paid for to the third one is free but as they don't your price breakdown like that they probably don't do it but still I would order more than one because you might need it again if you're working on a lot of stopwatches otherwise just by the one and while you're on the website see what else you have the purchase because shipping for one click spring is going to be expensive

 

 

[LittleWatchShop]

If I needed this spring, I would make it.  Fortunately, I have a pretty good supply of spring steel of various diameters.  Also have a couple of different wire-bending pliers.

[TwistyHairspring]

The click spring is in and the watch is ticking away.  Thanks for the help!  Next issue before I seal it up for good is the reset button. It sticks. Lubrication did not help, so I am assuming that it is either a bent stem or crushed button. Any idea how to get it apart? It is very difficult to get a hold of to try unscrewing it without damage. Maybe a press fit? Permanent installation?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by TwistyHairspring
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[TwistyHairspring]

Reset button now operates free!  Turns out it was just a press fit. I reamed the hole a bit and now it is good

Thanks!

T

Edited November 13, 2022 by TwistyHairspring