Mangled hairspring fixable or trash?

[mbwatch]

I have never yet attempted to fix a hairspring. I grabbed a parts watch with an AS 1240 out of a job lot thinking I'd maybe get it running for a relative. But I found this bird's nest of a hairspring with at least two hard crimps (almost like "folds"). It looks much much worse than any hairspring straightening demonstration I've seen so I'm curious whether this is fixable as an advanced case and worth the experience of trying, or if it is too far gone. Is it possible to unbend these hard angles? Considering I have broken mainsprings with less severe crimps, I am assuming this can't be fixed but thought I would ask.

Thanks!

[dbanks866]

In my limited experience I would say this is too far gone, not necessarily because of the folds as I've always been successful getting these back with patience but more the fact that the spring isn't on the same plane. It's so difficult to get it back and even worse if itan overcome.

Should have been ....if it's an overcoil.

[mbwatch]

4 hours ago, dbanks866 said:

..if it's an overcoil.

It is in such bad shape, I could not even tell if it was an overcoil. Some research suggests it is a flat hairspring. I think I will give it a try, understanding that I expect to break it at the worst kink.

I also found a source for an inexpensive replacement hairspring.

[JohnR725]

12 hours ago, dbanks866 said:

In my limited experience I would say this is too far gone, not necessarily because of the folds as I've always been successful getting these back with patience but more the fact that the spring isn't on the same plane. It's so difficult to get it back and even worse if itan overcome

over coils are not impossible they just take a heck of a lot of time. I want straightened out in over coil hairspring for somebody who didn't follow hair spring procedure for centering the watch hairspring and it took me 10 hours so it's doable it just takes a lot of time

19 hours ago, mbwatch said:

I have never yet attempted to fix a hairspring.

ideally in the real world except in watch repair apparently you would want to practice on something he could practice on first before your practice on the real thing. But apparently and watch repair we learn as we go so you can practice on this and it's hard to tell how bad it really looks I guess it also depends on how desperate you are to get it back working. For instance what watch did this come out of maybe we could find another balance complete?

[mbwatch]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

For instance what watch did this come out of maybe we could find another balance complete?

I can easily find a replacement hairspring or balance complete, or donor movement. It's an AS 1240 from an unremarkable Banner watch. I paid about $3 for it so I don't need to fix it, nor is I worth $15 on a hairspring or $25 for a balance complete. Skill building though.

[grsnovi]

37 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

Skill building though.

That's the spirit!  

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, mbwatch said:

I can easily find a replacement hairspring or balance complete, or donor movement. It's an AS 1240 from an unremarkable Banner watch. I paid about $3 for it so I don't need to fix it, nor is I worth $15 on a hairspring or $25 for a balance complete. Skill building though.

as it's disposable and this is watch repair learning group then by all means six they hairspring. Because the only way to get good at fixing hairsprings is fixing hairsprings. It just isn't good the practice on something that cannot be replaced

[Nucejoe]

 High magnification is a must have for sorting  hairsprings, so one can see if all circles of the coil stand prependicular to the plane of the coil, such fault usually causes the coil to foul itself at high amplitudes which the oscilator will  inevitably be forced into by movements of your arm..

I first locate each fault , a picture of the fault helps you decide how to go about sorting it out. Do not touch where there is no fault. 

Coned springs ( total or partial cone ) are most challanging because the fault has almost unformly spread across a few mm,  so  if you touch a section that isn't damaged, you will creat new faults.

Good luck 

 

[clockboy]

On 10/1/2022 at 3:39 AM, mbwatch said:

I have never yet attempted to fix a hairspring. I grabbed a parts watch with an AS 1240 out of a job lot thinking I'd maybe get it running for a relative. But I found this bird's nest of a hairspring with at least two hard crimps (almost like "folds"). It looks much much worse than any hairspring straightening demonstration I've seen so I'm curious whether this is fixable as an advanced case and worth the experience of trying, or if it is too far gone. Is it possible to unbend these hard angles? Considering I have broken mainsprings with less severe crimps, I am assuming this can't be fixed but thought I would ask.

Thanks!

Sorry but highly unlikely to achieve success with this one.. Well worth an attempt thou to just fine tune your skills

Edited October 2, 2022 by clockboy

[nickelsilver]

This one would be a challenge for a highly skilled watchmaker with lots of hairspring experience, and very well could be impossible to get "perfect" for even the best hairspring person. But as others have said, it's well worth some time to see how much better you can make it.

 

Just a couple of tips-

 

Check what kind of correction you want to make, it will basically fall into two categories: correction in the round, and correction in the flat. Generally the correction is made at one place for a given error- though that can be a bit fluid with a spring so mangled.

-for a correction in the round, find the point of maximum error, go back (follow the spring toward the center) 90 degrees and make the correction.

-for a correction in the flat, find the point of maximum error, go back 180 degrees and make the correction.

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 10/1/2022 at 3:33 PM, mbwatch said:

It is in such bad shape, I could not even tell if it was an overcoil. Some research suggests it is a flat hairspring. I think I will give it a try, understanding that I expect to break it at the worst kink.

I also found a source for an inexpensive replacement hairspring.

The length of the stud arm will tell you if its an overcoil mb. It looks pretty well battered but you lose nothing from trying mate. 

11 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Coned springs ( total or partial cone ) are most challanging because the fault has almost unformly spread across a few mm,  so  if you touch a section that isn't damaged, you will creat new faults.

Good luck 

 

Ive seen the method for straightening out coned springs.  Made to look very easily . Literally pulled the spring back through the cone turning it inside out and correcting in one foul swoop. Mind you it was Fried and he was a hairspring whisperer.  

Edited October 2, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[HectorLooi]

I don't think that this is an overcoil. The end near the stud has a very large crank and the location of that crank is not in the correct position for an overcoil. 

There is a very sharp kink in the hairspring ( 10 o'clock position in the first picture ). My experience with such sharp kinks has not been good.

Like everyone says, this is a good opportunity to learn hairspring tweaking. But you'll need a microscope, very fine tweezers and refrain from coffee and alcohol for 6 hours. 

[mbwatch]

No it is definitely not an overcoil. I have located NOS replacements and they are clearly flat hairsprings. And that kink at 10:00 is where I'll start, assuming it will break and that will be the end of it.

[VWatchie]

Whether you succeed or not I figure it would be some great practice!

[Neverenoughwatches]

25 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Whether you succeed or not I figure it would be some great practice!

Definitely, jump in at the deep end, thats how I've got through life. How you doing mate ? you feeling better ?

[VWatchie]

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Definitely, jump in at the deep end, thats how I've got through life. How you doing mate ? you feeling better ?

Yes, feeling better thanks! This was a tough one. I've even managed to work for a couple of days (in my profession as a teacher). So, hoping this infection has been defeated and won't return any time soon.

Agree with your "jump in at the deep end". I tend to procrastinate on things I fear will make me fail, but I'm working on it and getting there. Life is too short to hesitate.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

Yes, feeling better thanks! This was a tough one. I've even managed to work for a couple of days (in my profession as a teacher). So, hoping this infection has been defeated and won't return any time soon.

Agree with your "jump in at the deep end". I tend to procrastinate on things I fear will make me fail, but I'm working on it and getting there. Life is too short to hesitate.

Yes mate completely agree with you. I've been discussing hairspring vibrating with John . Fascinating subject, i think hes trying to put me off trying lol. I was under the assumption that raw hs are unavailable.  Apparently not, whatever size and spec you require at the click of a button.  and far cheaper than i imagined. 

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

 I tend to procrastinate on things I fear will make me fail, but I'm working on it and getting there. 

Success can't come with some failure its inevitable, i embrace it with positivity.  Its a good way to learn, you know that as well as i do Watchie . Maybe easy for me to say, i grew up doing things i shouldn't lol. Also the work i do and did from being 18 does make you quite fearless. Being ultimately responsible for removing the entire back of two houses with the threat of loss to finance also to life for that matter.  You just have to be very sure in what you are doing in this case. Also good public liability helps . So a transition to watch repair was a different learning curve for me that doesnt involve any apprehension at all. The small scale is tough for me though. My post a few days ago, trying to mount a balance wheel in a jacot made me feel rather inferior haha.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[mbwatch]

UPDATE:  Well, I gave it a shot. I did manage to get the major kink out, but I'm not ready to do much more than that, at least on such a small and thin hairspring. I was able to do as much damage as I could undo at any stage but at least I got it to be pretty round and almost flat.

I did have a chance to work on a more manageable hairspring today too. I made my first attempt at oiling the cap jewel on a non-shock protected pocket watch, which meant removing the stud and taking it off the balance cock. I had a spare movement and practiced on that one first with perfect results. When I then did the one I wanted to use, its overcoil became tangled in the next coil, and untangling it caused some deformation. I did get the overcoil back into shape but the balance doesn't quite run yet (fine because i have the spare). This one does feel like it will be manageable when I have the patience to try again. The 10s pocket watch hairspring is definitely sturdier than the tiny ladies' movement mangled as the subject of this thread.