Jump to content

Expiration Dates on Lubricants


Recommended Posts

Hello

I don't have any experience with the expiration dates on oils. My question is how long after the expiration date is the lubricant still effective or do I need to rush out and replace it right away? I have three oils that have expiration dates of: D - 5 = 10 / 2022, 941 & 9010 = 11 / 2022. 

From the Mobius web site I see that:

D - 5 is a "mixture of mineral and refined vegetable oils"

941 & 9010 are synthetic.

 

Thanks in advance for any help that can be given. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mcoulton said:

how long after the expiration date is the lubricant still effective

I don't know...

...however I would venture to guess that lubricating with "expired" oil would be effective but might not "last" as long as you might hope.

My question is: Are you charging for your services or is your watch repair limited to learning the trade on your own dime?

It would seem that if you are charging customers for watch servicing you ought to be able to replace your dated oil whereas if you are only worried about your own watches you ought to be able to determine that the "old" oil you've used is going to want to be cleaned and re-lubed on a more aggressive schedule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

I don't know...

...however I would venture to guess that lubricating with "expired" oil would be effective but might not "last" as long as you might hope.

My question is: Are you charging for your services or is your watch repair limited to learning the trade on your own dime?

It would seem that if you are charging customers for watch servicing you ought to be able to replace your dated oil whereas if you are only worried about your own watches you ought to be able to determine that the "old" oil you've used is going to want to be cleaned and re-lubed on a more aggressive schedule.

I guess the manufacturing world has succeeded in messing with our minds. in our dental industry, things like liquid mercury and gold alloy have expiration dates. C'mon .... Really?

Mercury is an element and gold is stable. So how do they expire? Previously a batch number or lot number was sufficient. Manufacturers became greedy and started putting expiration dates on everything. Making consumers feel guilty or unsafe using expired products, resulting in perfectly good stuff getting thrown away.

I think some common sense is needed. Although they say honey found in an Egyptian pyramid is still good, I wouldn't want to try 3000 year old honey. But I would certainly use expired lubricants. (Ahem... not the personal type, of course. 😉)

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

I think some common sense is needed.

Agreed 1000%

I think it all started with food manufacturers. Granted certain food can certainly go bad but most dated products say: "Best by <some date>" 

If the oils were natural vegetable oils I suspect they could go rancid at some point but I believe Moebius has taken a page from food companies hoping that by putting a date on their 9010 we'll worry. What would be better would be something suggesting that "out of date" oils may not perform as long as "fresh" oils.

It's highly unlikely that: a) I'll ever use all 2ml (or 5ml) of what I have now of various oils or that b) I'll ever actually undertake servicing a watch for pay where I would in fact be slightly concerned.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I guess the manufacturing world has succeeded in messing with our minds. in our dental industry, things like liquid mercury and gold alloy have expiration dates. C'mon .... Really?

Mercury is an element and gold is stable. So how do they expire? Previously a batch number or lot number was sufficient. Manufacturers became greedy and started putting expiration dates on everything. Making consumers feel guilty or unsafe using expired products, resulting in perfectly good stuff getting thrown away.

I think some common sense is needed. Although they say honey found in an Egyptian pyramid is still good, I wouldn't want to try 3000 year old honey. But I would certainly use expired lubricants. (Ahem... not the personal type, of course. 😉)

Agreed, best example from the food industry I saw was for a stated 200,000 year old Himalayan salt with a 3 month expiration date 😂

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, mcoulton said:

Hello

I don't have any experience with the expiration dates on oils. My question is how long after the expiration date is the lubricant still effective or do I need to rush out and replace it right away? I have three oils that have expiration dates of: D - 5 = 10 / 2022, 941 & 9010 = 11 / 2022. 

From the Mobius web site I see that:

D - 5 is a "mixture of mineral and refined vegetable oils"

941 & 9010 are synthetic.

 

Thanks in advance for any help that can be given. 

 

I dont really understand how they can have an expiration date. They will experience more oxidation in the watch itself. So if you have an oil that runs out of its sell by date in a months time and you use it in a watch before it runs out, do you then have to clean and relube the watch a month after you've used that oil. How bloody ridiculous 🤷‍♂️

9 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

hey say honey found in an Egyptian pyramid is still good, I wouldn't want to try 3000 year old honey.

Oh i definitely would, lots of 1000 year old vitamin and mineral goodies completely untouched by our environmental fook ups. Honey is the most stable food source on the planet. 👍

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all for your reply's. I'm only using the lubricants on personal watches; not doing any commercial work. I wondered about the expiration date because the logic seems flawed. If a watch is to be serviced every 5 years and the lubricant used is set to expire one month after the watch has been serviced then what does that mean for the newly serviced watch (as neverenoughwatch says). 

"200,000 year old Himalayan salt with a 3 month expiration date". Excellent!

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, mcoulton said:

I'm only using the lubricants on personal watches;

I guess it depends upon how much money you have if you have lots of money added replace all of those plus a few more just because

I remember my first bottle 9010 it lasted a long time because it didn't have an expiring date. Because I've seen the advertisements they had where they said their oil lasted forever. Then I went to a lecture with a person giving the lecture explained how all the bottles have to be labeled and every certain number years they must be replaced or else maybe the world was going come to an end or something. Then because of that and $200 cash I ran down the local material house and I was missing two bottles of HP oil at the time that required another couple hundred dollars. So I formulated a new plan which is on personal watches which is what I was doing that the whale last forever with some minor exceptions

oh at the link below you want to download number 40+ anything else that looks interesting.

you notice an Omega has a procedure every six years new oils. But they are using the synthetic oils are not using anything with organic or natural oils. If you look at the tech sheets on the organic oils there's specifying it to your life.

Oh and then there's the other complication at 5.99 years according to Omega we would still be using that oil and would recommend the service interval of how many years? Approximately 5 perhaps so now we have a 11 year life of the bottle of oil

oh and they also specify how many days it's the sip the oil cup and I typically don't worry about that either.

My understanding of the reasons they put dates on the bottle were without a dates you have no idea how old it is. If it's one of the oils that are either organic or the mineral may break down with time you don't know if it's one year older 20 years old as the bottles tended to look the same the last number years. Then yes occasionally you will hear stories of some of the oils going bad I've never heard of a synthetic going bad but I once heard of someone that had a bad bottle a D5 and there were using it on clocks will they had entire month of clocks that had issues.

Really the biggest concerns of lubrication are keeping it clean. It is also a concern about how you get the oil out of the bottle and how much contamination you get in the bottle. Which is why companies like Rolex supply the lubrication and syringes.

as you're not a manufacturer with infinitely deep pockets where purchasing oil X number years as part of doing business to be honest I wouldn't worry about it. The way you can tell if lubrication is good or bad is really in the performance of the watch I don't think any of the oils we have are necessarily going to go bad in a bad way. You may look at literature of vintage oils based on porpoises are whales are other stuff when they went bad they could actually go acid and do damage to the metal supposedly that would be bad. Typically what are oils you is a they just spread away with time and no longer lubricate or it's possible to get sticky but I've only seen that with references to oil from India is a typically are oils don't seem to go bad the synthetics not but they couldn't but they just don't seem to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/document/search?SearchString=working

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

Spent many years in the lube industry and oils degrade due to ;-

Air - oxygen in air will slowly oxidise elements of the oil - remedy is to keep airtight. Best done by storing upside down so lid is sealed by the oil.  Less free space the better.

Heat - this will evaporate any light ends and cause the oil to thicken.  Usually not a problem in watches c.f. engines.  Keep as cool as possible, some people keep in fridge, but not freezer.

Moisture - akin to air.  All oil and greases contain minute quantities of water which will abet oxidation. Water will often degrade additives.  Keep as dry as possible and avoid open containers in high humidity conditions.  Again store upside down to seal lid as the free space will 'breath' air in and out as temps/humidity vary

Light - this will slowly oxidise oil, so keep in the dark.

Storage medium - glass is best, avoid metals as these may consume some additives (that is their job!) and plastic may leach into oil in some cases.

Basically store upside down, in the dark in a cool dry environment with the lid firmly closed.

This is more important with natural oils/greases.  Some 'synthetic' oils are 'synthesised hydrocarbons (SHC)' and some are in fact not 'oils' but chemicals.

Shelf life is a debatable topic.  If oils/greases are stored in the best conditions as above they should last many years, more so with SHC types.  Similarly watches that are tightly sealed should  see less oil degradation, more so if they are assembled in clean, low humidity conditions.

Just my opinions from my experience. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Hi The essential thing is to get the parts dry safely and without loss. A dedicated drier (as Shown) is just an expensive piece of kit with a few bells/whistles and flashing lights.  The common hair dryer can do the same job with no fuss. Either keep the parts in the basket or decant them to a mesh container and gently blow dry with the dryer and save £350 for somthing you really do need.
    • Good job @JohnFrum! 👍 Does the 7s26 have those tiny cap jewels for the escape wheel and 3rd wheel? I did a 7s36B a year or two ago and found those tiny cap jewels so troublesome to handle that it completely killed my interest in Seiko movements. A shame really as those movements seem really good, and I'm just in awe of the "magic levers" for the automatic winding.
    • Hi Looking at the Video and the fact that the outer coils are not moving, definitley a balance spring problem, coils in the center stuck either magnetised or gummed up. I have attached a tech sheet/Guide of the 7s26 to give you an idea of its anatomy and a guide, hope you find it useful.   cheers 917_seiko 7s26c, 7s36c.pdf
    • 👍👍 Thankyou for the advice, you are right these youtube vids are as I like to say.. very shiny but not a true representation, but hey they got me interested so not all bad, I am going very slowly with this watch it wasn't super expensive but not silly cheap either I have to be carful what I do here as I would still like to use the watch and also learn. I might look for a larger pocket watch next time as the movements seem a little bigger, better for my sausage fingers!! lol Cheers Scott..  
    • Normally in fields other than watch repair people like to practice on something disposable first. Or something bigger like a 6497 clone relatively cheap off eBay. But how hard could watch repair be? Yes others have noticed that the videos make watch repair looks so the simple or so fast. Somebody recommended a video for me to watch to evaluate so I won't say what and it just so fun and fast and so the person skipped over a whole bunch of steps. But the person had a huge following whole bunch a likes on the video and was probably making money. The videos are not necessarily a true representation and as an added bonus just because you do a YouTube video doesn't mean you actually know what you're doing. Oh and it's not just YouTube videos on watch repair. I've seen YouTube product reviews like a CNC milling machine I purchased where the one that was reviewed versus the one that I got was a little bit different but you always expect that with Chinese stuff. But the person reviewing it made everything like to watch repair videos looks so a simple the first time you did something it worked. As why like some of the YouTube tells I watch for the show the bloopers of whatever were at least I'll tell you took them 10 tries to get this right versus everything looks perfect. I've even tried to convince somebody with YouTube channel to show a video of these of the watches I can't fix but they won't because that doesn't look fun and exciting. So yes watches are really tiny and it takes practice to do things and unfortunately practicing on live patients doesn't always have the desired outcome but who knows we won't know until you try just be careful when you take the balance wheel out not the stretcher break the hairspring anymore than it already is. You also want to look in preferably with a loop carefully between the balance wheel hairspring and see what you seek is angle for your video isn't right you might see something that I can't to the video.
×
×
  • Create New...