Balance staff

[Murks]

can someone help I'm experiencing some difficulty with my balance staff every time A replace a new staff for a broken one it never seem to fit the original roller jewel could this be because the inc staff are different to the normal staff? can someone help for  AS 970 movement.

[oldhippy]

The staffs will be different you must make sure you have the correct one. If you post a photo of the balance cock showing the top we can advise you on which one you need. Sometimes balance staffs and shock systems can be a nightmare to begin with.  

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Murks said:

AS 970 movement.

 

19 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

The staffs will be different you must make sure you have the correct one.

the problem with some watches like this is there's lots of variations. If you look at the parts list below you notice there several different balance wheels several different rollers and 11 different balance staffs you need to know exactly which one you're trying to get.

 

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=AS_970

 

[oldhippy]

 11 different balance staffs. That's a minefield for someone who is new to this game. 

[nickelsilver]

And even if you determine exactly the right staff for your watch, there's a risk that even a good supplier might still send the wrong one. Or the guy before you got the wrong one and reamed out the roller table to fit, etc.

[JohnR725]

51 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

Or the guy before you got the wrong one and reamed out the roller table to fit, etc.

even in cases were supposedly only one staff exists such as the Hamilton 992B. Friction fit and I've found cases where the friction fit staff will fit. Because the previous staff was slightly larger. Then I have to go through my assortment of staffs to see if one might be slightly larger to fit. Because some of the aftermarket staffs aren't necessarily made to the exact specifications of the original staff. Which is why replacing balance staffs can be a pain. Then a course added all its variations far too many variations.

[Murks]

7 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

 

the problem with some watches like this is there's lots of variations. If you look at the parts list below you notice there several different balance wheels several different rollers and 11 different balance staffs you need to know exactly which one you're trying to get.

 

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=AS_970

 

How do a find out the right one a need what can a look for?

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Murks said:

How do a find out the right one a need what can a look for?

to help you out we need pictures of the watch

[Murks]

9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

 

the problem with some watches like this is there's lots of variations. If you look at the parts list below you notice there several different balance wheels several different rollers and 11 different balance staffs you need to know exactly which one you're trying to get.

 

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=AS_970

 

How do you reamed out the roller table 

9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

 

the problem with some watches like this is there's lots of variations. If you look at the parts list below you notice there several different balance wheels several different rollers and 11 different balance staffs you need to know exactly which one you're trying to get.

 

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=AS_970

 

How do a find out the right one a need what can a look for?

I'll take a picture of the movement when I'm home a was asking for future so I know myself what I should look for to right the right balance staff

And how do you reamed the roller  someone said something about reaming the double roller?

[JohnR725]

4 minutes ago, Murks said:

How do you reamed out the roller table 

the rule and watch repair is never modify the watch to fit the replacement part. Sometimes the rule has to be modified but you what a modify the replacement part to fit the watch.

4 minutes ago, Murks said:

How do a find out the right one a need what can a look for?

you need good reference material like going to this website looking up whatever it is you're looking for

http://cgi.julesborel.com/

you should also have the bestfit books they're available as a PDF somebody will tell you how to get those I just don't have the link handy right now. the reason you what these books are you can look up parts but you can also look up dimensions of things like balance staff.

finding parts understanding what you're looking for looking at to learn that is just as complicated as watch repair.

then since were talking balance staffs you go to a website like this you can look up the staff you need and you get dimensions of the staff. You never replace a balance staff without measuring the old staff and the new staff and make sure they're identical. You want to avoid a problem before damaging the roller table or hairspring

https://www.balancestaffs.com/product.php

then you can look up your caliber number you get this link

https://www.balancestaffs.com/a-schild.php?caliber=970

notice the only get six balance staffs here then if you click on each of the different staffs you get the complete dimensions of that staff

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Murks]

11 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

A got the bestfit111 already just don't understand it much how do a check for the roller and the staff a need in this book? 

 

How do a find out the right one a need what can a look for?

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Murks said:

How do a find out the right one a need what can a look for?

one of the things you need is dimensions of the old staff.

I attached an image out of the bestfit book where if you have the size as the old staff you could go through the book and see if you can find a staff that matches the sizes.

[Murks]

What tool can a use to measure this?

[oldhippy]

A watchmakers Micrometer gauge is what I used

[Murks]

Can a use the micrometer gauge to measure the double roller as well?

[oldhippy]

You can use the micrometer gauge for many things including the roller. You can also buy pivot gauges, there are many different gauges in watchmaking too buy, some can be expensive so look around on the net including ebay.  

[nickelsilver]

The micrometer discussed in this thread is one of the most useful for watchmaking, especially measuring things like staffs.

[JohnR725]

in addition to the above reference here's a really nice micrometer expensive but really nice for watch repair

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/micrometer-bench-top-kafer-germany?code=M60812

otherwise you can look through this list they come in a whole variety of prices

https://www.cousinsuk.com/search?searchTerm=micrometer

 

 

 

[Murks]

The significant distance is that distance bet,veen the center 
of the roller hole and the outside edge of the roller jewel how do a measure this on my micrometer?

[LittleWatchShop]

39 minutes ago, Murks said:

The significant distance is that distance bet,veen the center 
of the roller hole and the outside edge of the roller jewel how do a measure this on my micrometer?

Are you asking how to measure the inside diameter of the roller table?

If so, I have used a brass tapered pin and marked it with a black marker.  Then I drop the roller table down on the pin until it is snug.  Then I spin it a bit to make a mark.  After removing it, I have a mark to measure to.  There is probably a better way professionals do this.  I wish I had something similar to my jewel hole diameter tool to do this.

[Murks]

Thanks you 

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Murks said:

roller hole and the outside edge of the roller jewel

 

On 9/26/2022 at 9:45 PM, Murks said:

never seem to fit the original roller jewel

I'm having a little confusion?

Maybe you could reexplain what the problem is with the roller jewel and how it relates to changing the balance staff?