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Watch running backwards: Mondaine helvetica no1 regular MH1.R2


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Hi everyone,

A bizarre query, but my watch (see topic) has started running backwards. All hands run in reverse. I’ve replaced the battery and still the same problem. The person who replaced the battery said they’ve never seen this spontaneously happen before and I’ve read online that this is impossible for a mechanical watch, unless it’s been tampered with. Can anyone explain how this might have happened? I think I’ll need to get the mechanism replaced, but more curious about how this could have possibly happened. Over to you, expert watch repairers!

Best wishes,

 

George

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27 minutes ago, george316 said:

Hi everyone,

A bizarre query, but my watch (see topic) has started running backwards. All hands run in reverse. I’ve replaced the battery and still the same problem. The person who replaced the battery said they’ve never seen this spontaneously happen before and I’ve read online that this is impossible for a mechanical watch, unless it’s been tampered with. Can anyone explain how this might have happened? I think I’ll need to get the mechanism replaced, but more curious about how this could have possibly happened. Over to you, expert watch repairers!

Best wishes,

 

George

Hi george. I'm  a little confused here. You say this watch has a battery, but you've read online that a  # mechanical # watch cannot run backwards, which is correct it cannot. These are 2 different types of watch. 

35 minutes ago, george316 said:

Hi everyone,

A bizarre query, but my watch (see topic) has started running backwards. All hands run in reverse. I’ve replaced the battery and still the same problem. The person who replaced the battery said they’ve never seen this spontaneously happen before and I’ve read online that this is impossible for a mechanical watch, unless it’s been tampered with. Can anyone explain how this might have happened? I think I’ll need to get the mechanism replaced, but more curious about how this could have possibly happened. Over to you, expert watch repairers!

Best wishes,

 

George

Battery polarity? Battery wrong way round ?

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6 hours ago, george316 said:

battery

the use of the battery in a modern watch which suggest quartz?

6 hours ago, george316 said:

impossible for a mechanical watch

normally when someone says mechanical watch we think of watch with the escapement were not usually thinking of a stepping motor quartz watch

6 hours ago, george316 said:

tampered with

interesting wording

we need to see the picture of the movements because I Google MH1.R2 I just get a picture of a watch which is basically worthless we need the movement number and picture the movement would be nice

it's not impossible to make a quartz watch run backwards if the state or has been tampered with in a variety of ways at one time it was sometimes possible to take the stater out flip it over the watch will run backwards. If it's been modified it bumps a variety of things with the stater is no longer the proper shape watch could run backwards. It's also conceivable that something is not quite right with the circuit but it was probably a mechanical thing we would need to see a picture of the movements

then I assume by the wording of your watch was running fine you took at some place for battery and now it's running backwards?

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Thanks everyone for comments. So, yeah, I’m a total novice and assumed the watch is mechanical but it’s actually quartz, hence the battery. The watch was running fine then one day, earlier this year, I noticed it was running backwards. I haven’t had it apart or otherwise tampered with it myself. Then it stopped running altogether. I took it to the repair shop today and they replaced the battery. It started running again, although still backwards to their surprise. The person who replaced the battery said he’d never seen this happen before, which piqued my curiosity. That, and I’d also quite like to know how to fix it. Pictures attached of the model and the second hand ten seconds apart (ten seconds earlier). I don’t have a picture of the motor/mechanism I’m afraid . Any thoughts on how this could have happened and what I ought to do, short of replacing the entire mechanism?

E421C50A-4B4B-4C71-B604-9B6D2D51DE70.jpeg

AA72C0FE-B139-4899-AEBB-B02301F0E05E.jpeg

8B1D92BC-3391-49A8-B151-88ECCB966E9C.jpeg

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19 hours ago, george316 said:

Hi everyone,

A bizarre query, but my watch (see topic) has started running backwards. All hands run in reverse. I’ve replaced the battery and still the same problem. The person who replaced the battery said they’ve never seen this spontaneously happen before and I’ve read online that this is impossible for a mechanical watch, unless it’s been tampered with. Can anyone explain how this might have happened? I think I’ll need to get the mechanism replaced, but more curious about how this could have possibly happened. Over to you, expert watch repairers!

Best wishes,

 

George

Hello There,

If your watch has a battery it very likely has an electro-mechanical movement, meaning it is essentially a motor.

If you reverse the polarity of the applied voltage on certain DC motors, they will run in the opposite direction.

image.png.0aae8cdb80c4a6d570fd394ea9c89f88.png

I STRONGLY encourage you to take a video as we all need a laugh and that is an excellent reason to laugh (not at you, at the bizarre situation of a watch running backwards).

Then flip the battery over and take another video.   

The watch will either not work at all, or run correctly.

Out of an abundance of caution, before you do the battery flip, I suggest you take photos of the watch case with the battery removed so we can have a look and tell you which way the battery is supposed to be inserted in your watch.  If it still runs backwards...well...that's even more delicious!

g.

-----

Edited by Gramham
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Do you suppose it somehow had an accident with a demagnetizer?  Through improper use thereof?  
I could see how somebody disassembling it, then during reassembly flipping the stator over, could cause this malfunction.  But given that quartz watches are seldom completely disassembled, I wasn't sure how likely that would be.

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5 hours ago, Kalanag said:

Sorry you leave me confused…

I'm thinking that its just how graham words things (no offense graham) . Very detailed descriptions. A quartz movement does have both electrical and mechanical elements to it. 

1 hour ago, KarlvonKoln said:

Do you suppose it somehow had an accident with a demagnetizer?  Through improper use thereof?  
I could see how somebody disassembling it, then during reassembly flipping the stator over, could cause this malfunction.  But given that quartz watches are seldom completely disassembled, I wasn't sure how likely that would be.

Hi Karl. I wonder if it would be possible in this way to reverse the polarity of the magnetic rotor or the rotor plate so push the rotor the opposite way. Or if the plate notch were on the oppsite side pulling the rotor in the opposite direction reversing the train mechanism 🤷‍♂️

1 hour ago, KarlvonKoln said:

But given that quartz watches are seldom completely disassembled, I wasn't sure how likely that would be.

Haha unless you are like me and have around 300 disassembled quartz movements in his watchroom for no apparent reason but for curiosity 🙄

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6 hours ago, Gramham said:

If your watch has a battery it very likely has an electro-mechanical movement, meaning it is essentially a motor.

If you reverse the polarity of the applied voltage on certain DC motors, they will run in the opposite direction.

yes true a DC motor reversing the voltage and it will run backwards but this is a stepping motor. Stepping motors don't work that way at least not in the watch. It will not run backwards if you flip the battery over the circuit will not work at all.

1 hour ago, KarlvonKoln said:

flipping the stator over,

flipping stators over is a thing of the past at least it should be. in the early days there may have been at least one or two watches you could flip to stay here but typically there shaped so that doesn't happen. If you are able to drop the stator and changes shape perhaps you to get a drug backwards but this doesn't look like it's one that's going to tolerate that. Then if you were enthusiastic with a small file and change the shape then it definitely runs backwards. I did that once out of curiosity I had a quartz watch the grand backwards. Quartz watches typically all by themselves don't run backwards.

I found a link where someone servicing one of these you can see that the state or has steady pins so they can only go in one way you can't flip upside down. It's possible it's something else is going on that we may never understand because we need to access the movement.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/2354-ronda-715-service-walkthrough-a-beginners-quartz-service/

17 hours ago, george316 said:

I noticed it was running backwards. I haven’t had it apart or otherwise tampered with it myself. Then it stopped running altogether. I took it to the repair shop today and they replaced the battery. It started running again, although still backwards to their surprise. The person who replaced the battery said he’d never seen this happen before, which piqued my curiosity. That, and I’d also quite like to know how to fix it.

the easiest way to fix this watch would be just to put a new movement in. Who knows when it was last serviced if it's ever been serviced just get a movement swap. Although that's likely to exceed the costs the watch even though the movements relatively cheap..

 

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I see that the OP posed this question on another watch repair forum site simultaneously, and the most definitive-sounding answer that popped up there stated that the men's size Ronda movements in particular have a very long stator plate that is susceptible to bending from a drop or a poorly-performed battery change, which can cause the watch to run backward constantly or intermittently. A movement swap was suggested, as it was here. 

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1 hour ago, Geotex said:

I see that the OP posed this question on another watch repair forum site simultaneously, and the most definitive-sounding answer that popped up there stated that the men's size Ronda movements in particular have a very long stator plate that is susceptible to bending from a drop or a poorly-performed battery change, which can cause the watch to run backward constantly or intermittently. A movement swap was suggested, as it was here. 

Yep, we learned in school that some movements could go backwards after a hard shock. The wall around the hole in the stator where the rotor fits can get very thin. We tried to get one to go backwards messing with the stator but I don't think anyone was successful.

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2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

yes true a DC motor reversing the voltage and it will run backwards but this is a stepping motor. Stepping motors don't work that way at least not in the watch. It will not run backwards if you flip the battery over the circuit will not work at all.

flipping stators over is a thing of the past at least it should be. in the early days there may have been at least one or two watches you could flip to stay here but typically there shaped so that doesn't happen. If you are able to drop the stator and changes shape perhaps you to get a drug backwards but this doesn't look like it's one that's going to tolerate that. Then if you were enthusiastic with a small file and change the shape then it definitely runs backwards. I did that once out of curiosity I had a quartz watch the grand backwards. Quartz watches typically all by themselves don't run backwards.

I found a link where someone servicing one of these you can see that the state or has steady pins so they can only go in one way you can't flip upside down. It's possible it's something else is going on that we may never understand because we need to access the movement.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/2354-ronda-715-service-walkthrough-a-beginners-quartz-service/

the easiest way to fix this watch would be just to put a new movement in. Who knows when it was last serviced if it's ever been serviced just get a movement swap. Although that's likely to exceed the costs the watch even though the movements relatively cheap..

 

 

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

yes true a DC motor reversing the voltage and it will run backwards but this is a stepping motor. Stepping motors don't work that way at least not in the watch. It will not run backwards if you flip the battery over the circuit will not work at all.

flipping stators over is a thing of the past at least it should be. in the early days there may have been at least one or two watches you could flip to stay here but typically there shaped so that doesn't happen. If you are able to drop the stator and changes shape perhaps you to get a drug backwards but this doesn't look like it's one that's going to tolerate that. Then if you were enthusiastic with a small file and change the shape then it definitely runs backwards. I did that once out of curiosity I had a quartz watch the grand backwards. Quartz watches typically all by themselves don't run backwards.

I found a link where someone servicing one of these you can see that the state or has steady pins so they can only go in one way you can't flip upside down. It's possible it's something else is going on that we may never understand because we need to access the movement.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/2354-ronda-715-service-walkthrough-a-beginners-quartz-service/

the easiest way to fix this watch would be just to put a new movement in. Who knows when it was last serviced if it's ever been serviced just get a movement swap. Although that's likely to exceed the costs the watch even though the movements relatively cheap..

 

How about increasing the size of the stator notch ?

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  • 2 months later...
On 9/17/2022 at 9:35 PM, george316 said:

Thanks everyone for comments. So, yeah, I’m a total novice and assumed the watch is mechanical but it’s actually quartz, hence the battery. The watch was running fine then one day, earlier this year, I noticed it was running backwards. I haven’t had it apart or otherwise tampered with it myself. Then it stopped running altogether. I took it to the repair shop today and they replaced the battery. It started running again, although still backwards to their surprise. The person who replaced the battery said he’d never seen this happen before, which piqued my curiosity. That, and I’d also quite like to know how to fix it. Pictures attached of the model and the second hand ten seconds apart (ten seconds earlier). I don’t have a picture of the motor/mechanism I’m afraid . Any thoughts on how this could have happened and what I ought to do, short of replacing the entire mechanism?

First, let me say that putting the battery in upside down is almost certainly not going to get the watch to run backwards. The reason I say that is that the watch relies on a CMOS IC that requires the correct voltage to operate. The IC contains an oscillator circuit, and a binary counter to divide the 32768Hz down to 1 Hz, and a driver transistor to drive the coil with the pulses from the output of the counter. If you put the battery in upside down, the most likely scenario is that the watch will simply not operate (and the battery will probably drain quite rapidly due to a reverse polarity protection circuit in the IC). The worst case scenario is that if you put the battery in back to front, the IC will fry.

So the fact that it is going backwards is more likely to be a mechanical issue, or the rotor has somehow been subject to some very strong magnetic field (a neodymium magnet perhaps) and is now magnetised backwards. This *might* work, but typically the rotors have more than one set of poles, so I would be surprised if a strong magnetic field didn't simply kill it. I guess if it reversed one set of poles, it might take two steps backward for every one step forwards or something like that.

Given the cost of a replacement module, that would probably be the easiest fix, but I am genuinely curious to see if my theory is correct.

I do have a job lot of Ronda movements, so I may pull one of those apart and see if I can re-create the effect.
 

Edited by AndyHull
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  • 1 year later...

Same issue here, this time with video!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ns7i7v7x6nkACQfZ8

I changed the battery myself, as I have done a few time before without issue.

The minute hand goes backwards and the second hand forwards!

The watch is making a new, more audible ticking sound now too and so maybe I messed up the motor somehow? The screwdriver I used (same as before) is slightly magnetic.

So, repair or cheaper just to buy new?

It is an older version of this:

https://ch.mondaine.com/en/products/essence-41mm-vegane-nachhaltige-uhr-ms1-41120-rb

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  • 4 weeks later...

Yeah OP it'll just be a damaged/misshapen stator that's then causing the rotor to turn in the opposite direction, since it's the shape of the stator that causes the rotor to turn as it receives current. Movement exchange is the way forward on that one. 

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