Lost or still usable hairspring?

[brunomartins]

Hi everyone!

I am proceeding thr replacement of balance staff and saw this hairspring situation.

Clearly not in good shape, but anyone knows if this can be fixed? Or if I just continue using it, the balance is going to work ?

 

[grsnovi]

I don't recall what you're working on, so accept my comments knowing that there will be individuals here who absolutely could/would attempt to fix that hairspring.

I assume that when you say:

26 minutes ago, brunomartins said:

...replacement of balance staff...

...you are in fact removing/replacing a worn or broken balance staff with one that wasn't originally part of the balance of this particular watch. Depending on the movement, I would have opted to try to find a "balance complete" (cock, hairspring, balance) to replace the whole thing.

If this is your first service (and perhaps your only service) it seems that you're doing a rather deep dive for a beginner.

Did your watch work before you started? If so there is no reason to think that using the pictured hairspring won't continue to "work".

If your watch was having trouble before you began your service there are aspects of the pictured hairspring that would lead one to think replacement would be a good idea.

I'm not that far along so I would have tended towards trying to find an entire balance that would have a good staff and hairspring - I'm not yet comfortable with disassembly of a balance and replacement of parts and the subsequent adjustments needed to get it back in good poise and running order.

[Nucejoe]

 Unless you have no recourse, call this a goner.   Coned coils are the hardest to sort out. 

[brunomartins]

23 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

I don't recall what you're working on, so accept my comments knowing that there will be individuals here who absolutely could/would attempt to fix that hairspring.

I assume that when you say:

...you are in fact removing/replacing a worn or broken balance staff with one that wasn't originally part of the balance of this particular watch. Depending on the movement, I would have opted to try to find a "balance complete" (cock, hairspring, balance) to replace the whole thing.

If this is your first service (and perhaps your only service) it seems that you're doing a rather deep dive for a beginner.

Did your watch work before you started? If so there is no reason to think that using the pictured hairspring won't continue to "work".

If your watch was having trouble before you began your service there are aspects of the pictured hairspring that would lead one to think replacement would be a good idea.

I'm not that far along so I would have tended towards trying to find an entire balance that would have a good staff and hairspring - I'm not yet comfortable with disassembly of a balance and replacement of parts and the subsequent adjustments needed to get it back in good poise and running order.

Unfortunately I couldn’t find a balance complete. It’s an AS1203 (Ralco).

The staff is broken blocking the movement of the wheel. Confirmed after inspection on microsc.

 

Trying to work on it. It’s a very old movement. The project is a complete review of the lessons of Mark. The hairspring repair is by my own attempt 

[Nucejoe]

According to Dr ranfft AS 1207, 1263, 1266, 1267, 1311 and 1314 wiould interchange with 1203. 

[grsnovi]

Bravo on your initiative! I would be inclined to call it a "goner" as @Nucejoe suggested (before he supplied additional options).

Maybe you can find a donor movement from among those that Joe has identified by researching Dr. Ranfft's site.

[HectorLooi]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163064066227?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=hEpW_XVlQOS&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=v36TsHWBSw-&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I think you are in luck!

[JohnR725]

your hairspring does look like it desperately needs help. If you believe the book I have on fixing hairsprings the cone shaped isn't that hard to fix the rest of it would be depends on how much practice you have somebody that's really good could probably fix all of this.

oh one of the problems with a book like this is the person who's doing all of this is extremely good as this means if you haven't been practicing on hairsprings and practicing means practicing learning how to fix them not practicing on how to destroy them then your success will vary by quite a bit

On 9/16/2022 at 11:47 AM, brunomartins said:

Or if I just continue using it, the balance is going to work ?

then no it is not going to work at all. The easy way to find that out is after replace the balance staff put it in the watch and see what happens it should become apparent really fast it is not going to work at all.

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 9/16/2022 at 7:47 PM, brunomartins said:

Hi everyone!

I am proceeding thr replacement of balance staff and saw this hairspring situation.

Clearly not in good shape, but anyone knows if this can be fixed? Or if I just continue using it, the balance is going to work ?

 

Oh dear it looks like a miniature steel tornado, I'm expecting go see a very small pair of red glittery shoes to come flying out Dorothy . Have fun in the world of hairspring manipulation.  Good luck matey.

[brunomartins]

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

your hairspring does look like it desperately needs help. If you believe the book I have on fixing hairsprings the cone shaped isn't that hard to fix the rest of it would be depends on how much practice you have somebody that's really good could probably fix all of this.

oh one of the problems with a book like this is the person who's doing all of this is extremely good as this means if you haven't been practicing on hairsprings and practicing means practicing learning how to fix them not practicing on how to destroy them then your success will vary by quite a bit

then no it is not going to work at all. The easy way to find that out is after replace the balance staff put it in the watch and see what happens it should become apparent really fast it is not going to work at all.

Wow that’s ao specific but is good opportunity to see how this tiny piece behaves 

[robdavidson]

On 9/18/2022 at 6:06 PM, JohnR725 said:

your hairspring does look like it desperately needs help. If you believe the book I have on fixing hairsprings the cone shaped isn't that hard to fix the rest of it would be depends on how much practice you have somebody that's really good could probably fix all of this.

oh one of the problems with a book like this is the person who's doing all of this is extremely good as this means if you haven't been practicing on hairsprings and practicing means practicing learning how to fix them not practicing on how to destroy them then your success will vary by quite a bit

then no it is not going to work at all. The easy way to find that out is after replace the balance staff put it in the watch and see what happens it should become apparent really fast it is not going to work at all.

Might I inquire which book this is taken from?

[JohnR725]

51 minutes ago, robdavidson said:

Might I inquire which book this is taken from?

 

[robdavidson]

Thanks.  Itd be valuable to have some reference books (real books) suggested by people who have knowledge and have read and used them.  So many covers out there, sorta like buying wine.

[watchweasol]

Hi Rob If you start with Fried, Donald De Carle, you wont go wrong.   I have attached one for your interest.  The Chicago one is in bits but its all there

1156193141_JosephBulovaSchoolofWatchMaking(1).pdf chicago lesson 1.PDF chicago lesson 10.PDF chicago lesson 11.PDF chicago lesson 12.PDF chicago lesson 13.PDF chicago lesson 14.PDF chicago lesson 15.PDF chicago lesson 16.PDF chicago lesson 17.PDF chicago lesson 18.PDF chicago lesson 19.PDF chicago lesson 2.PDF chicago lesson 20.PDF chicago lesson 21.PDF chicago lesson 22.PDF chicago lesson 23.PDF chicago lesson 24.PDF chicago lesson 25.PDF chicago lesson 26.PDF chicago lesson 27.PDF chicago lesson 28.PDF chicago lesson 29.PDF chicago lesson 3.PDF chicago lesson 30.PDF chicago lesson 31.PDF 588239796_chicagolesson32Part1.pdf chicago lesson 32 Part 2.PDF chicago lesson 33.PDF chicago lesson 34.PDF chicago lesson 35.PDF chicago lesson 4.PDF chicago lesson 5.PDF chicago lesson 6.PDF chicago lesson 7.PDF chicago lesson 8.PDF chicago lesson 9.PDF 468703549_ToolsMaterialsoftheTrade.PDF

[grsnovi]

@watchweasol Looks like your data files are all OK...   

[JohnFrum]

Thanks. Downloaded the lot.

[watchweasol]

Hi Gary  I try to back up and spread data over several sticks, probably multi copies jus a matter of digging them up, but lost quite a lot though.