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Are watch names a secret?


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Hi Guys,

    this may be a 'VERY' noob question.

Take a look at the pictures below.

I think that I am holding a picard watch and it's a model "Cadet" - first of all, am I right?

I've done some looking around online and I can't find any information about this watch or the mechanism that is in it.

So a couple of questions 🙂

1. Is there somewhere that anyone can recommend that I could find any information about this watch?

2. How do identify the mechanism (so I can buy parts)?

in case anyone's curious - the fault I'll be trying to fix on this (god willing) is that when I wind it I can feel the spring tension but it instantly releases the spring tension and the winding handle just springs back (I can lift the keyless mechanism to adjust the time no problem).

 

Thanks in advance,

Paul.

 

picard1.png

picard2.png

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8 minutes ago, Paul33 said:

Hi Guys,

    this may be a 'VERY' noob question.

Take a look at the pictures below.

I think that I am holding a picard watch and it's a model "Cadet" - first of all, am I right?

I've done some looking around online and I can't find any information about this watch or the mechanism that is in it.

So a couple of questions 🙂

1. Is there somewhere that anyone can recommend that I could find any information about this watch?

2. How do identify the mechanism (so I can buy parts)?

in case anyone's curious - the fault I'll be trying to fix on this (god willing) is that when I wind it I can feel the spring tension but it instantly releases the spring tension and the winding handle just springs back (I can lift the keyless mechanism to adjust the time no problem).

 

Thanks in advance,

Paul.

 

picard1.png

picard2.png

Thats a nice looking pocket watch paul. Some watch brands can be quite illusive. But determination and help.here is often fruitful so I'm hopeful for you. Searching for the same on ebay can sometimes throw up information.  There is often movement identification somewhere inside the watch. Sometimes its obvious on the bridges, sometimes under the balance. But it could in fact be anywhere even strangely enough on  the back of the dial. Look for logos,  symbols and letters . Numbers tend to be the brand calibre, long numbers usually serial numbers. You have the word Brevet here this and Brevett inc. the symbol is French for patent. So something about the movement design has a unique feature that has a patent on it.  Not sure about this thought but this could also be an indication that the movement or a particular feature of its design is french originated. The issue you are having sounds like a non engaging click which also seems apparent on your second photo. So possibly a broken click spring here.

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Hi Paul,

Based on the name on the dial face I would assume that the watch was called "Cadet" and that it was offered by J.Picard. That said, the J.Picard watch company (or jeweler) might have purchased its movements from somebody else. 

Usually the movement itself will offer more clues after it has been removed from the case. There will often be a serial number somewhere as well as a stamped or engraved symbol somewhere on the main plate (often under the balance cock) that would allow narrowing the search further.

One resource that you could try would be: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&2&2uswk although I don't see J.Picard there.

It is often critical the you know the diameter of the movement when searching.

Another resource is called: BESTFIT 111 Encyclopedia of WATCH Materials (Parts 1 & 2).

Then you might also take some time to watch this video.

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Thanks Guys,

   if nothing else it's nice to know that I'm not being blond.

I'll be sure to have a look at the info you mentioned - and thanks for the suggestion of the click spring )I will now learn what that is 🙂

Thanks again guys, appreciated.

Paul.

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640127191_picard2.thumb.png.67f48e6b15cf05e085e894ddc525cb9d2.png.b68af579b8989e41782ce804f4a815c4.png

Paul,

Nice watch.

That is a very distinctive detail.  It took a significant amount of effort to put these semi square inside corners in.  For a movement a bit closer to average , they were showing off.

Shane 

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One thing I learned early on is to pretty much just ignore what it says on the dial unless it's a name brand with a lot of circulation. There were many many thousands of companies, jewelry stores, individuals, etc. that "made" watches. The movements are all we really concern ourselves with, because you're pretty much guaranteed to not find spare case parts, special hands, or anything like that. There were only hundreds to the very low thousands of movement manufacturers out there, and they tended to be around longer, do more, and be more organized. If the case is screwed, you'd better be good with metal work. Even a lot of the plating isn't doable any more on small scales due to environmental regulations. 

Beyond the case/dial/hands, parts can either be pretty easy to get, or insanely difficult. Doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground. First thing to do is pop that movement out, and figure out what it is. You can spend hours and days digging around on the internet, or you can loosen a few screws and know in a few minutes.

If this watch has any meaning or value to you, and it's your first victim (carefully chosen word), hop on over to the 404 Club thread, and get some inspiration. There are a lot of really cheap donors out there you can screw all to hell without a care before you mess up something important or valuable.

As for the specific movement, that... route? channel? is bizarre! I didn't even realize it was a 3/4 plate until Shane pointed it out. No one will see that unless they're poking around inside the case, a watchmaker isn't going to be especially impressed by the movement, and it doesn't seem likely to be much in the way of exhibition cases in that era... Weird!

Finally, all of this may be moot. It's clear just looking there that the click spring is rotated to where it's no longer engaging the ratchet wheel. I imagine there's a missing screw that is supposed to hold it in place, and that's AWOL. You probably haven't built up a screw stash harvested from your failed victims yet, but that's what you need. You can find out if the rest of the watch is worth the trouble by holding it in place, giving it a turn or two of wind, and see if it goes.

Edited by spectre6000
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1 hour ago, Paul33 said:

it's nice to know that I'm not being blond.

Not unless you are related to Dolf Lundgren. 🙂 

54 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

One thing I learned early on is to pretty much just ignore what it says on the dial unless it's a name brand with a lot of circulation. There were many many thousands of companies, jewelry stores, individuals, etc. that "made" watches. The movements are all we really concern ourselves with, because you're pretty much guaranteed to not find spare case parts, special hands, or anything like that. There were only hundreds to the very low thousands of movement manufacturers out there, and they tended to be around longer, do more, and be more organized. If the case is screwed, you'd better be good with metal work. Even a lot of the plating isn't doable any more on small scales due to environmental regulations. 

Beyond the case/dial/hands, parts can either be pretty easy to get, or insanely difficult. Doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground. First thing to do is pop that movement out, and figure out what it is. You can spend hours and days digging around on the internet, or you can loosen a few screws and know in a few minutes.

If this watch has any meaning or value to you, and it's your first victim (carefully chosen word), hop on over to the 404 Club thread, and get some inspiration. There are a lot of really cheap donors out there you can screw all to hell without a care before you mess up something important or valuable.

As for the specific movement, that... route? channel? is bizarre! I didn't even realize it was a 3/4 plate until Shane pointed it out. No one will see that unless they're poking around inside the case, a watchmaker isn't going to be especially impressed by the movement, and it doesn't seem likely to be much in the way of exhibition cases in that era... Weird!

Finally, all of this may be moot. It's clear just looking there that the click spring is rotated to where it's no longer engaging the ratchet wheel. I imagine there's a missing screw that is supposed to hold it in place, and that's AWOL. You probably haven't built up a screw stash harvested from your failed victims yet, but that's what you need. You can find out if the rest of the watch is worth the trouble by holding it in place, giving it a turn or two of wind, and see if it goes.

Aye matey. Have that top plate off so we can have a skeg of E. 👍

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hey guys,

    I really appreciate the advice - I especially like the fact that I'd missed that the click spring was missing a screw 🤦‍♂️

I'm looking forward to seeing where I can get a screw from to try that (I have a number of dead iphones/ipads - hopefully something will fit).

even if it does work I'll probably take it to pieces 🙂

Thanks again,

Paul.

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  • 1 month later...

Hey guys,

    the solution was to lock the click spring in place.

The follow up problem that I have is that I have been able to find anything small enough to put in the hole - and I've even brought a couple of parts watches. The hole seems smaller than any screw I can find - how do you guys normally deal with this type of problem?

 

Thanks,

Paul.

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7 hours ago, Paul33 said:

Hey guys,

    the solution was to lock the click spring in place.

The follow up problem that I have is that I have been able to find anything small enough to put in the hole - and I've even brought a couple of parts watches. The hole seems smaller than any screw I can find - how do you guys normally deal with this type of problem?

 

Thanks,

Paul.

Usually missing screws come from a donor watch. Not always possible on older obscure movements, you may be lucky if you can find one or one from its family. Identification of the movement needs to happen first you also then may be able to order one from a supply house again age and obscurity are a factor. The donor movement comes in handy for other parts that may be needed  which is more than likely so this tends to be a more time and money efficient way of repairing. Another option would be to buy a screw assortment either new or old watchmakers stock, aaaand again luck may need to be on your side. Possible other options but more expensive and time involved.  Have you established if the movement has other issues ?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Guys,

   I don't know if the movement has any other issues - when I wind it, it works nicely.

I will take it to pieces at some point though to give it a service.

I do now have some donor watches - and a selection of dollar watches (which are interesting if only in their primitive construction compared to european watches).

The donor watches I have don't seem to have anything this small (I even brought some really small stuff and a selection of screws).

 

bit of a bugger really.

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10 hours ago, Paul33 said:

Hi Guys,

   I don't know if the movement has any other issues - when I wind it, it works nicely.

I will take it to pieces at some point though to give it a service.

I do now have some donor watches - and a selection of dollar watches (which are interesting if only in their primitive construction compared to european watches).

The donor watches I have don't seem to have anything this small (I even brought some really small stuff and a selection of screws).

 

bit of a bugger really.

You may not be in luck then without a donor of the same movement or its family. How about something small like a dial screw or even a stud screw if its that small. Having the same thread pitch is again a long shot. Your only option may be to drill out and tap a new thread of a known screw.

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On 9/11/2022 at 7:36 PM, Paul33 said:

Hi Guys,

    this may be a 'VERY' noob question.

Take a look at the pictures below.

I think that I am holding a picard watch and it's a model "Cadet" - first of all, am I right?

I've done some looking around online and I can't find any information about this watch or the mechanism that is in it.

So a couple of questions 🙂

1. Is there somewhere that anyone can recommend that I could find any information about this watch?

2. How do identify the mechanism (so I can buy parts)?

in case anyone's curious - the fault I'll be trying to fix on this (god willing) is that when I wind it I can feel the spring tension but it instantly releases the spring tension and the winding handle just springs back (I can lift the keyless mechanism to adjust the time no problem).

 

Thanks in advance,

Paul.

 

picard1.png

picard2.png

There are no secrets with watches you just need to know where to look or ask.. Asking on this forum for I’d of a watch normally gives a good result. There are sites such a “Ranfft. Which give search facility..

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-2uswk.cgi?1&ranfft

Edited by clockboy
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11 hours ago, Paul33 said:

Hi Guys,

   I don't know if the movement has any other issues - when I wind it, it works nicely.

I will take it to pieces at some point though to give it a service.

I do now have some donor watches - and a selection of dollar watches (which are interesting if only in their primitive construction compared to european watches).

The donor watches I have don't seem to have anything this small (I even brought some really small stuff and a selection of screws).

 

bit of a bugger really.

A picture of the keyless works may help tn identify your watch. Not coming up with much in research on the name Picard apart from this 😆

Screenshot_20221113-091822_eBay.jpg

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Ah yes, a Lucian Picard.  They are kind of like Helbros, in that the movement could be anything.  I was trying to research it, but I have to admit, I haven't come across anything like it yet.  I have my own Lucian Picard (a more modern wristwatch that was a gift from a past employer) and they seem to have taken to using Chinese movements these days.  But there was a time they made their own; I'm trying to learn if that's one of their own or if it's a strange ebauche.

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